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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » MAX/MSP - Pd
MAX/MSP help for making beats.
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petsharpteeth



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject: MAX/MSP help for making beats.
Subject description: I am very new.
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So I just got this program with the idea of making beats. I open up the program, and freak out. I am sure this has happened to most. This software is like no other software I have ever used. Basically what I am trying to figure out is, where do I start? What chapter do I read? I want IDM style beats. I will do all the reading it takes. I will buy whatever midi controller I need. I know I am a total newbie but I really want to figure this out! This program looks amazing. Radiohead uses it. Autechre. I want to try it too!

sorry heh
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have no MAX/MSP experience. Just want to say

welcome

Someone will be able to set you in the right direction.

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cebec



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I recommend starting with the excellent tutorials. Max, first, see how far you can get and maybe cheat a little and do some of the MSP tutorials, as well. Try to complete them all, though.

Don't hesitate to Alt-left-click (Help) every object (external) in a patch and follow the related help files as desired. And feel free to cut/copy and paste parts or all of the structures in those Helps into your own patches and designs. Save your good ideas often, perhaps building up a library of useful subpatches you can combine at will.

Really, you don't need to be a genius or a mathematician to use and enjoy Max/MSP ... though, it wouldn't hurt! ... just stay calm, accept the steeper-than-most learning curve and have fun with the basic building blocks and concepts, first -- start simple but think big!
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petsharpteeth



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks for the welcome! Very Happy

and thank you for the direction!
i will definetly read those tutorials.
I know it will take some time but I really want to figure this out.
Looks like fun! Very Happy Very Happy
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seraph
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:50 am    Post subject: Re: MAX/MSP help for making beats.
Subject description: I am very new.
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petsharpteeth wrote:
I want IDM style beats...This program looks amazing. Radiohead uses it. Autechre. I want to try it too!

if all you want is IDM style beats maybe you could choose another application. I don't want to sound discouraging but max/msp (for me) is a very esoteric thing and without someone that initiates you to its "rites" you will not go very far. I feel I can tell you because I scratched my head for a long time about it and only after taking a few courses on computer programming I have seen the light (not that I consider myself a programmer, of course). maybe I am dumb but by myself I would have not gone very far. so my advice is to get someone who can teach you. good luck Exclamation and welcome to electro-music.com Very Happy

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petsharpteeth



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

do you know of any programs? do you teach IDM haha!
oh thanks for the welcome!!! and for the info.
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seraph
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

petsharpteeth wrote:
do you know of any programs? do you teach IDM haha!
oh thanks for the welcome!!! and for the info.

I) the first that comes to my mind is Ableton Live
2) no way
3) you're welcome
4) Very Happy

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Stanley Pain



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i remember reading a review with Trent Reznor, speaking about recording his album after "the downward spiral".

Reznor felt he had pioneered many techniques during the process of recording the album, or not necessarily pioneered them, but gone to the trouble of digitally degrading signals, creating unusual room acoustics.

asked if he was going to that trouble again for The Fragile he said no. there are plugins that do it nowadays and that kind of takes the fun out of it.

if you're wanting to write music like autechre, there is software out there designed to help you do it for a fraction of the effort autechre put in to writing their music.

the dynamic delay on adobe audition springs to mind... the time stretch and delay functions on ableton live (which i hear is an awesome programme and very fun).

SX3 can do some pretty cool stuff too, but it doesn't have the immediacy of the programmes i've just mentioned.
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petsharpteeth



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

awesome! i have ableton live and i never messed with time strech and delay!
i should check out what kind of results that gives me.

i hate the idea of being a cheater though haha
i started learning max/msp, just to see if i can tackle this beast!
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cebec



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

lots of people get extra mileage out of the tutorials and shorten the learning curve a bit by reading Curtis Roads' 'Computer Music Tutorial' simultaneously... check it out. It's a thick book, but you'll likely cherish it forever as a general reference.
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seraph
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

max/msp tutorials are great, maybe the best documentation I have ever seen for any computer application. computer music tutorial is cool too to get a general idea about computer music but nothing beats a good teacher and that's not necessarily easy to find.
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Alexander



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In MSP there are already enough so-called 'broken beats generators' and whatever..

...start with studying the first few max tutorials, then do a number of msp tutorials then start over and do them all.

You want instant IDM beats?? there's a patch in your example folder right here:

/examples/sequencing-looping/modsquad/modsquadredux.pat

studying this patch will give you a small idea of the possibilities and power of the software..

..for further study into beats with max/msp I suggest you dive into the 'recycle' related patches, also already provided in the examples.

ps. Why is one of the standard answers in a max/msp forum 'try ableton live'?? I mean, it's a question related to max and it would be helpful for the few max users on this forum to keep it as on-topic as possible!

Thank you!

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petsharpteeth



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow i really enjoyed that last reply!!!
lots of great info in there!

i will stick to max/msp cause that was my first goal.
i have used ableton live before, and to me its just anyother program

what attracted me to max/msp is that i could create my own programs

thats why i am interested
doing things my way is what i am best at
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seraph
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Alexander wrote:
Why is one of the standard answers in a max/msp forum 'try ableton live'?

I don't know if it's a standard answer but if anyone asked me for an application for creating IDM beats, max/msp would not be my answer.

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petsharpteeth



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

what is max/msp mainly used for? I read somewhere that Autechre used this software heavily. I wanted to use IDM style beats as a backing for my music.

Not unless someone is interested in collaborating Smile Where could I go on this forum for that? I am really interested in meeting someone who knows their stuff when it comes to beats.

can someone help me out? I home i am not a pest. I have been experimenting with different styles of music.
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cebec



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Autechre definitely used Max/MSP more heavily at one point than I think they do, now...especially on LP5 and Confield. They've been using some Elektron gear lately, I believe, and they use hardware of various make and model all the time. Several photos from a recent tour showed them using an Elektron Machinedrum, Monomachine, and a G2 engine.

It's more their particular attitude and workflow that defines their sound, IMO. They've said that most of their ideas and songs are generated by jamming with one another for a year or so, recording everything and then going through the recordings to pick out the 'good' stuff. Find a way to work that's comfortable for you and allows you to improvise and jam with yourself or others and that can produce the sorts of timbres and rhythms you're most attracted to and let the sky be the limit.

There is no main use for Max/MSP. Check out the cycling74 site to see... It's so versatile and open-ended it can be used for practically anything and it's not restricted to audio-centric applications, either. There's video, physical computing (sensors), data processing, etc... A lot of people have been drawn to it, though, due to several high profile artists mentioning it in interviews. In fact, a lot of what it's used for in these instances could be replicated with other software...

It's also a matter of how involved you want to be with the particles of sound creation and music composition... how much time do you want to spend building something vs. using it to make music? They can be relatively intertwined in Max/MSP, but there's some heavy lifting to be done, first.
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Stanley Pain



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah. as well as max/msp there's reaktor, the g2 and supercollider, which cylob uses.

www.cylob.com

if you ask how to create idm beats then ableton is adequate, surely?

max/msp isn't just for idm, you can do house music, electro, techno, ambient etc etc. and kassen claims to have been able to programme it to make a cup of tea for him, but i'm yet to see the hardware he plugs it into. Wink

i think you've got to have a better reason for using max/msp than wanting to recreate a particular genre, or you'll just find it's a waste of time or annoying when someone has the same results using "inferior" software in a quarter of the time. woah. this reply probably sounds a lot more pretentious than it's supposed to. sorry! Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stanley Pain wrote:
...you'll just find it's a waste of time or annoying when someone has the same results using "inferior" software in a quarter of the time.

you summed it up perfectly Very Happy

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Ivity



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cebec wrote:
Autechre definitely used Max/MSP more heavily at one point than I think they do, now...especially on LP5 and Confield.


And ep7 of course... Very Happy

There are couple of MaxMSP patches in the net, from ep7 and Confield, which can be easily found with yahoo or google...

But at this time Sean and Rob work on hardware gear only.

For creating "IDM style beats", thay use modifyed OS version of Ensoniq EPS16+ Shocked sampler with ability to modulate loop points through zero cross points + Akai MPC 1000 drum sampler Very Happy

The most exciting occupation, which can be done with MaxMSP (IMHO) - real time loopers with your own custom features and UI interface (because, unfortunately, looping abilities of Ableton Live are very weak Sad ).

The most famous MaxMSP looper with open structure is lloopp:

http://lloopp.klingt.org/start.html

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stanley Pain wrote:
.....and kassen claims to have been able to programme it to make a cup of tea for him, but i'm yet to see the hardware he plugs it into. Wink


Well, it wasn't that hard. I actually used PD instead of MAX because PD is better for data abstractions. The main thing to do is install GEM, the graphical extention, then load the teapot object. From there on the rest is quite easy and left as a excersise for the reader.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great to hear your story on this. I was worried for a moment there. Only a tiny bit worried though..
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phasercs101



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My college music teacher said it best...Max is a steep mountain, on the climb to the top there will be many skeletons but if you do get there it is awesome.

You can do a lot with Max but don't hurt yourself...I don't start any of my Max projects from scratch, I use the tutorial files as sort of a platform to jump off of. Others replied with some examples, those would be great to modify for your own personal max patch but with out all the ulcers. Also remember give credit where it is deserved (If you modify someone else’s patch just mention that somewhere on your patch).

Also if you can do something in Ableton…do it in Ableton. Max/MSP is meant to do things you can’t normally do in Ableton, ProTools, Reason or hardware like drum machines. You should reach for Max when you say..."I wish I could make Ableton to do **blank**". Remeber you can also use Max to ehance Ableton.

This is my first time posting something so HELLO EVERYONE!
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seraph
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

phasercs101 wrote:

This is my first time posting something so HELLO EVERYONE!

Hi,
welcome to electro-music.com Very Happy

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capsella



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

funny thing is, the great grandfather of ableton live was a max sequencer patch by Robert Henke (monolake and co founder of ableton).

-thanks,
Andrew
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