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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Klee sequencer
Finished my Klee!
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23isgood



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Finished my Klee!
Subject description: Update: Youtube video link!
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Ok, this has been quite a project! I am very happy to be done building. Everything looks like it works. My Klee is Kleeing and Klonking happily. Now to calibrate and learn how to program it. I love what I hear so far. Stay tuned for a youtube video soon. Fun fun fun!

A big thank you goes out to all who contributed to this awesome project.

pete


Update:

Check out the youtube vid,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0Hw6cURa3M


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Still needs labeling. I think I will use a Brother label maker.
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The LED bezels worked out great. They disperse the light nicely.
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Last edited by 23isgood on Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Alienation



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice job....like the light combinations.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is that a 3 high rack panel? If so, that's fairly economical on space.

I, too, like your LED arrangement.

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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

party time! hobo drinking

Nice job!! Can't wait for the Youtubage! Cool

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very nice job. To build something like this is quite rewarding, isn't it. Look forward to hearing what this sequencer will do.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Ok, this has been quite a project! I am very happy to be done building. Everything looks like it works. My Klee is Kleeing and Klonking happily. Now to calibrate and learn how to program it. I love what I hear so far. Stay tuned for a youtube video soon. Fun fun fun!


Great job. I like the use of the ribbon cable as it is very space efficient. Very Happy I agree also, great use of panel space .....

Bill
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23isgood



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks guys! The rack panel is three spaces. Its took a bit of planning to make everything fit. I used Fonik's old rack panel as reference. I actually have a tiny area to fit a few extra bits in the future, in case folks come up with some mods. Check out the video, I just finished uploading it earlier today.

pete

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loopcycle



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey! i recognize that modular! i do believe you lugged it over to last year's AH norcal in marin

nice vid, good lookin panel =)
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oops. I just realized that I wired a few things incorrectly. I gotta go back and fix those mistakes. Im surprised that it still works. I was wondering why a few things weren't working correctly, he he. I knew there would be something I would overlook.
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gee, I dunno - maybe you should leave it the way it is - it sounded pretty good, even through my dial-up YouTube lurch. Laughing

As for the wiring - is there anything I need to fix or make more clear in the documentation?

Thanks for posting that, I get a genuine thrill out of hearing Klee's - I like the different techniques I hear you, Tim, Tom, Andy, and Alison P use with it.

Cheers,
Scott

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:17 am    Post subject: Re: Finished my Klee!
Subject description: Update: Youtube video link!
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23isgood wrote:

Check out the youtube vid,



Crying or Very sad

It's not long enough!!!!

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23isgood



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yea its not long enough. I don't know how to upload videos longer than a min on youtube. My camera only makes quick time videos and they are always huge, so I had to cut this one down to 1 min or I could not upload it. How do people upload videos that are ten min's long?

Now on the issue of the build docs, I found them to be very well written. The problem I encountered was on how to orient the switches. The SPST switches I got have a short leg and a long one. I could not figure out which one to point upwards. Using the DMM I was able to figure out which setting was closed and open but I also need to know what their function does. For example, what switch setting gives a logic "1" and the setting that gives logic "0".

Scott, when you mention to set a switch to the "off" position, it would help if you described which logic function it is at, "0" or "1". I know this is ultra basic stuff here, but I have been getting confused because on my Klee when a SPST switch is on the up position it beeps when testing it with the DMM. Is this the "On" position? But after reading the doc's, it says it is the "Off" position. I figure its on since it allows the current to go through, hence the "On".

The problem I am encountering now, is while I was trying the testing procedure. When I set the step switches according to the docs and then hit the manual load switch, it works sometimes but not others. It is not consistent. If a clock is plugged into the clock input, shouldn't the Klee start cycling through its steps? It cycles sometimes but not all the time. I found myself flipping on and off everything until it started to cycle again. I need to double check my wiring. I may have screwed up somewhere.

thanks,
pete

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
The problem I am encountering now, is while I was trying the testing procedure. When I set the step switches according to the docs and then hit the manual load switch, it works sometimes but not others. It is not consistent. If a clock is plugged into the clock input, shouldn't the Klee start cycling through its steps? It cycles sometimes but not all the time. I found myself flipping on and off everything until it started to cycle again. I need to double check my wiring. I may have screwed up somewhere.



After turning on the Klee, I have to press "Load" once to get things stepping. I think it depends on the make of CD4013 that is being used and slight differences in the intial state its in when the Klee is powered up.

Your question deals more with having it on, then pressing "load", and things are not stepping when the clock should be stepping it, at least part of the time, right?

When it's not clocking when you expect it to clock, does pressing the load switch make the LEDs light up in the pattern you have set with the pattern switches? In other words, does the pattern load, but the Klee doesn't step after the pattern has loaded? Or does the pattern not load?

Lemme know!
Cheers,
Scott

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23isgood



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok so, when I set some step switches to the "ON" position then hit the load switch without a clock input, the "ON" steps light up, which is good. When I flip the step 15 switch to "ON" and hit the load switch, its LED does not turn on and it changes the step LED's that are next to it, even if they are on or not. Now when I plug a clock in and turn it on by flipping the clock switch to "ON", the steps cycle corresponding to the "ON" steps only, but when I flip the step 15 switch to "ON" all the LED's light up and everything looks like it has stopped or the LED's get all screwed up.

When this happens I have to turn off the sequencer and turn it back on, or flip a bunch of switches until it snaps out of it. It seems like it gets locked up. It looks like there is something wrong with switch 15 so im looking at it now.

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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, if your switch checks out good, and you don't see any mistakes with the wiring, here is what I recommend you do:

Remove U7 (CD4034) from its socket. On the socket (X7, which U7 plugs into), probe pin 22. When switch 15 is in the "off" or "0" position, you should get 0V there, and when it is in the "on" or "1" position, you should get roughly 15V.

If that checks out OK, put the Klee in 8X2 mode and see if register A loads and steps OK while switch 15 is on and off.

Normally, the last thing I suspect is a part, but, in this case, this sounds very familiar. Seems like when I was first breadboarding the Klee, one of my CD4034s actually did have a problem along these lines.

In other words *if everything is wired correctly*, there's very little switch 15 does other than supply either 0V or 15V to pin 22 of U7. If U7, for example, has a short through it, that could drag both it and U6 (the other CD4034) down and give you the weirdness you're seeing (they're joined at the hip by R Clock, PSA, and R Async).

Keep me posted!

Cheerio,
Scott

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23isgood



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I went through all the step switches and resolderd them. I tested the step 15 switch and it beeped when tested with the DMM (according to the tutorial). When I ran the clock, the Klee seemed to be working better, though the step 15 switch is still acting up. So I tested pin 22 like you said, and it read 0 and 14 or so volts. When I plugged the IC back in, I ran the Klee again and now the Klee is performing worst than ever! All the step LED's stay on now regardless of how the step switches are set. I think it may be the CD4034. I have to order a new one ASAP. What do ya think?

thanks for your help Scott,
pete

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In this case, it sure sounds like it. If that CD4034 is removed and you are in 8X2 mode, will shift register A load and step OK regardless of that switch position? (by Register A, I mean steps 1 through 8 ).

If so, then if you put that CD4034 in X7, it should work well there, too, except now steps 9 through 16 should step OK in the 8X2 mode.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes register A cycles just fine and steps correctly without U7. When I put U7 back in, everything seems to be better again though when I flip step switch 15, and flip the load switch all the LED lights on register B light up and stay on (this is in 8 by 2 mode). When I flip switch 15 back, and hit the load switch again, the pattern returns to cycling correctly again.

Do I have to hit the load switch every time I flip any of the step switches? Right now to get the step pattern to update, I have to set a pattern on the switches, and then hit the load switch to hear the pattern I just programed. Is this normal? Is there supposed to be another clock going into the load jack?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Do I have to hit the load switch every time I flip any of the step switches? Right now to get the step pattern to update, I have to set a pattern on the switches, and then hit the load switch to hear the pattern I just programed. Is this normal?


Yep, that's the intended operation. The pattern won't load unless you press the "Load" switch, send a load signal into the external load jack, or you have the Gate Bus 1 Load Switch set to 1, and Gate Bus 1 goes high.

Quote:
Is there supposed to be another clock going into the load jack?


Only if you want it Very Happy That's a way to manipulate the pattern as it's running, or to do other cool things I really should elaborate on more vis-a-vis the ops manual. Once the Klee is 100%, I highly encourage you (and others) to play with that a while - there are some neat apps for it.

Anyway, this is certainly a weird prob, which, from experience, is of the variety a bad CD4034 can dish out. I'm usually loathe to blame things on ICs right off the bat, but, in this case, the act of flipping that switch doesn't do much but turn a voltage on or off, which is exactly what the other pattern switches do as well. The voltage is getting to that point. Anything near those solder points or between the pins of that socket in that area would just cause more than one bit to go high when you loaded, but things would still shift OK. The pins that would cause this sort of problem are the PSA, Register Clock, and R Async, but a solder bridge to one of them would have to be a fairly large, shiny patch of soldery evil to bridge those points, the way they're arranged on the board.

Assuming it is a bad CD4034, if you swap them around, the problem will likely follow. In this case, I would think step seven would screw up register A, and register B would operate as expected.

Cheers,
Scott

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23isgood



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh good idea. I will swap out the 4034's and see if the problem follows the potentially bad 4034. I just looked and Mouser is out of 4034's and Jameco has some insane minimum order? These are the usual suppliers I go with. Who else could I order from that wont take forever to ship?

So with a clock going into the load jack you could come up with some crazy rhythms. I think im understanding the logic of the Klee. (pun intended he he.)

thanks,
pete

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Last time I checked, Hosfelt had them for cheap, but they're not the fastest deliverers.

Digikey has the TI part for $1.88 (same price as Mouser) in stock. They're pretty quick, at least to me. TI parts work (I've used them). I think they're generally newer parts, whereas, IIRC Hosfelt might stock the old RCAs, though there's nothing wrong with those - they've worked in the breadboard for a year and a half without hiccup. Except for that one that acted kind of like what you're getting. It was a bit different, but generally kind of the same thing - IIRC, some bits wouldn't load at all initially, then things went fairly wacky with it.

Man, I hope you get that thing going soon. That is a nice build job (I've been studying it close-up for clues - the build looks impeccable from what I can see).

You might do the swap thing, just to see what happens. Oh, and probably wouldn't hurt to order a couple of them at least. Never know when a spare might come in handy. Like....now. Laughing

Cheers,
Scott

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great looking Klee. Nice work.

I like the youtube video too. Yes, too short.

Off topic - I noticed there is a German Pop band called Klee. There are lots of youtube vids of them that show up on your Klee page there. Very good, IMHO. Oh the world is a great interwoven tapestry.

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23isgood



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks! I put a lot of work into it as you can see. I went the old school route and drew the panel design onto paper and taped it to the panel as a guide for drilling. I drilled everything by hand. Its not totally aligned, but its functional. Well my Klee does work as long as I don't flip step switch 15. I ordered two CD4034's from Digikey along with some of those Panasonic SMD tempcos, I have heard so much about.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, it is confirmed that the CD3034 is bad. I put the good one in the socket for Register B, and register B works fine now. Step 15 switch works without a prob. So I got some new ones coming in the mail. I just gotta wait. In the mean time, im having fun playing it in 8 step mode.

pete

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's a very good sign Very Happy

In the meantime, put the good CD4034 in Register B, then you can get sixteen steps out of it with Invert B on. Very Happy

Cheerio,
Scott

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