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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » g2ools utilities
g2ools for engine owners
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zenpho



Joined: Apr 01, 2008
Posts: 12
Location: uk
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:05 am    Post subject: g2ools for engine owners
Subject description: novation remote zero + g2 engine = yay!
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm working on a project that will allow my novation remote zero to co-operate with a g2 engine.

My plan is to:

1. have a laptop tucked away with the lid closed,
2. sniff midi bank/pgm change messages,
3. request a patch dump from the g2 each time the bank/pgm changes
4. decode the knob assignments from the patch dump
5. configure the remote zero display the g2 knob labels
6. configure the g2 to listen for midi ccs for each knob assignment

I've started by modifying the g2cat.py part of g2ools to:
1. extract the module and parameter names from a g2 .pch2 file
2. map midi CCs for each knob
3. save out a new pch2 file with the midimappings

This works - which is exciting! but unfortunately - some pch2 files - after I save back out - show up as corrupted.
The clavia editor either won't open them, or the editor crashes with a visual c++ runtime error.

----
I've narrowed it down to a simple test in python to:
1. load a pch2 file,
2. immediately save it back out without any modification

...but the resulting output pch2 file is still corrupt.

in a hex editor - the differences show up spottily early on in the file like this:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen. first few differences


... then near the end of the file they really go out of synch like this:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

This works for most pch2 files I've tried, but a few like this are stuborn. ;o(

I've attached the python test file, and both input and output pch2 files incase anyone has any ideas.

----

I should add that I'm extremely greatful to the creators and contributors of g2ools for all their hard work - amazing stuff!


forum-simpleLoadThenSave.zip
 Description:
collection of files in a zip to demonstrate problem

(input and output patches, python files, gif files of differences, text file of differences)

Download
 Filename:  forum-simpleLoadThenSave.zip
 Filesize:  148.52 KB
 Downloaded:  178 Time(s)

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cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2262
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: g2ools for engine owners
Subject description: novation remote zero + g2 engine = yay!
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zenpho wrote:
I'm working on a project that will allow my novation remote zero to co-operate with a g2 engine.

My plan is to:

1. have a laptop tucked away with the lid closed,
2. sniff midi bank/pgm change messages,
3. request a patch dump from the g2 each time the bank/pgm changes
4. decode the knob assignments from the patch dump
5. configure the remote zero display the g2 knob labels
6. configure the g2 to listen for midi ccs for each knob assignment

I've started by modifying the g2cat.py part of g2ools to:
1. extract the module and parameter names from a g2 .pch2 file
2. map midi CCs for each knob
3. save out a new pch2 file with the midimappings

This works - which is exciting! but unfortunately - some pch2 files - after I save back out - show up as corrupted.
The clavia editor either won't open them, or the editor crashes with a visual c++ runtime error.

----
I've narrowed it down to a simple test in python to:
1. load a pch2 file,
2. immediately save it back out without any modification

This works for most pch2 files I've tried, but a few like this are stuborn. ;o(

I've attached the python test file, and both input and output pch2 files incase anyone has any ideas.

----

I should add that I'm extremely greatful to the creators and contributors of g2ools for all their hard work - amazing stuff!


Would you make sure the patches that are being corrupted are readable in the editor before you run them through your program?

Please post ORIGINAL copies of the patches that are being corrupted.
I think what may be happening is that you are using patches that were created with a newer version of the editor. I think G2ools needs to be updated to work with each version of the editor if the patch format changes at all, since it was written during a time there were no editor updates for a long time.
I need to run some experiments with various patch versions to test this theory though. Which version of the editor are you using?

Also- would someone refresh me on Editor versions?
What were the "usable/reliable" versions prior to 1.40?
I think G2ools was written before 1.40, but I'm not sure.
I want to compare the same patch format for the version of the editor preceeding 1.40, with a 1.40 version and a 1.6x version.

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Last edited by cappy2112 on Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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zenpho



Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:56 am    Post subject: RE: g2ools for engine owners Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
Quote:
Would you make sure the patches that are being corrupted are readable in the editor before you run them through your program?

Please post ORIGINAL copies of the patches that are being corrupted.


The zip file in my original post contains a patch (input.pch2) which is readable in the 1.40 editor without problems. The output (output.pch2 in the zip file) doesn't open in the 1.40 editor.

Thanks for having a look at this. Much appreciated.
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cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2262
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: RE: g2ools for engine owners Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zenpho wrote:
cappy2112 wrote:
Quote:
Would you make sure the patches that are being corrupted are readable in the editor before you run them through your program?

Please post ORIGINAL copies of the patches that are being corrupted.


The zip file in my original post contains a patch (input.pch2) which is readable in the 1.40 editor without problems. The output (output.pch2 in the zip file) doesn't open in the 1.40 editor.

Thanks for having a look at this. Much appreciated.


Would you also post 1-2 patches that do not get corrupted?
Thanks

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zenpho



Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: g2ools for engine owners Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:

Would you also post 1-2 patches that do not get corrupted?


Here you are... here's two patches:

The first (input2.pch2 in the zip) is a 1.40 demo patch converted to a non-demo version by saving in the full 1.40 editor... The second (input3.pch2 in the zip) is a TR808 emulation patch I downloaded from the forum here a while ago.

Both outputs (output2.pch2 and output3.pch2 in the zip file) are processed by g2ools and load in the 1.40 editor without any problems.


g2ools-process-okay.zip
 Description:
two patches after loading and saving in the python G2ools software... trying to find out why some patches go through this process okay, and others get corrupted.

Download
 Filename:  g2ools-process-okay.zip
 Filesize:  18.28 KB
 Downloaded:  186 Time(s)

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cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2262
Location: San Jose, California
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:33 pm    Post subject: Re: g2ools for engine owners
Subject description: novation remote zero + g2 engine = yay!
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zenpho wrote:
I'm working on a project that will allow my novation remote zero to co-operate with a g2 engine.

My plan is to:

1. have a laptop tucked away with the lid closed,
2. sniff midi bank/pgm change messages,
3. request a patch dump from the g2 each time the bank/pgm changes
4. decode the knob assignments from the patch dump
5. configure the remote zero display the g2 knob labels
6. configure the g2 to listen for midi ccs for each knob assignment

I've started by modifying the g2cat.py part of g2ools to:
1. extract the module and parameter names from a g2 .pch2 file
2. map midi CCs for each knob
3. save out a new pch2 file with the midimappings

This works - which is exciting! but unfortunately - some pch2 files - after I save back out - show up as corrupted.
The clavia editor either won't open them, or the editor crashes with a visual c++ runtime error.

----
I've narrowed it down to a simple test in python to:
1. load a pch2 file,
2. immediately save it back out without any modification

...but the resulting output pch2 file is still corrupt.


1. I'll have to retract my original theory about the patch format-version. I don't think this has anything to do with the issue you've brought up. It was just a hunch.

2. Have you tried running the original, unmodified g2cat.py on the input.pch2 that you posted in your first zip file? When I try to open the
output file, it also crashes the editor. So your change has nothing to do with this. Was input.pch2 created in the Demo editor???

3. When I diff an output patch with the input patch, using the original g2cat.py, there are many differences, but the output patch loads in the 1.4 editor. This is somewhat surprising but I am not so knowledgeable on the patch formats.

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zenpho



Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: g2ools for engine owners
Subject description: novation remote zero + g2 engine = yay!
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cappy2112 wrote:

2. Have you tried running the original, unmodified g2cat.py on the input.pch2 that you posted in your first zip file?

Not until just now. The output is huge (over 700 lines!).

I wouldn't want to clog up the forum with such a huge post so I've posted the output of g2cat.py to pastebin: http://pastebin.com/m72688b2

Good thinking to try this! Maybe we're onto something (although I don't know how to fix it!) because Line 618 and 681 show what looks like python errors on the lowpass filter slope and the quad delay range....

cappy2112 wrote:

When I try to open the output file, it also crashes the editor. So your change has nothing to do with this. Was input.pch2 created in the Demo editor???

The input.pch2 file was saved from the full v1.40 editor.

cappy2112 wrote:

3. When I diff an output patch with the input patch, using the original g2cat.py, there are many differences, but the output patch loads in the 1.4 editor. This is somewhat surprising but I am not so knowledgeable on the patch formats

I wonder if the messages on line 618 and 681 (of the pastebin output of g2cat.py) help reveal where the problem is?

C is my first programming language, so to me it looks like Python saying "Help! This is a nord.module.Mode pointer to address 0x00FF1DF0, but there's nothing loaded there".
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: g2ools for engine owners
Subject description: novation remote zero + g2 engine = yay!
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

M-E-R-R-Y- C-H-R-I-S-T-M-A-S btw Wink

zenpho wrote:

I wouldn't want to clog up the forum with such a huge post so I've posted the output of g2cat.py to pastebin

That's fine- I didn't want you to paste the results, just to perform the experiment.

Quote:

Good thinking to try this! Maybe we're onto something (although I don't know how to fix it!) because Line 618 and 681 show what looks like python errors on the lowpass filter slope and the quad delay range....


These are not errors.
Code:
"nord.module.Mode instance at 0x00FEB058"
means "an object of type nord.Module.Mode was instantiated, and it's id reference is 0x00FEB058 ".
Python doesn't have the notion of addresses and pointers, but you can think of that number being 100% unique. It's ok to think of it as an address though.

This object was apparently instantiated, but no methods in the class were invoked. I don't know if the original author wrote code for 100% of the G2 modules or not, and of course there may be some bugs that no one caught yet. However, I don't remember anyone mentioning bugs/problems with the last version of G2ools. But then again, it's been a few years and I may have forgotten.

Since I don't remember the chronology of the Editor versions vs G2ools deployment, would you try downloading the 1.24 Editor from this forum,
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-32310.html
create the exact same patch- from scratch, then process it with UNMODIFIED g2ools again?

Quote:

I wonder if the messages on line 618 and 681 (of the pastebin output of g2cat.py) help reveal where the problem is?


Quote:

C is my first programming language, so to me it looks like Python saying "Help! This is a nord.module.Mode pointer to address 0x00FF1DF0, but there's nothing loaded there"


I'm quite comfortable with Python, but don't know the G2 patch format at all.

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zenpho



Joined: Apr 01, 2008
Posts: 12
Location: uk
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:34 am    Post subject: Re: g2ools for engine owners
Subject description: novation remote zero + g2 engine = yay!
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cappy2112 wrote:
M-E-R-R-Y- C-H-R-I-S-T-M-A-S btw ;-)


Indeedie. Sorry it's a bit late but I hope you had a groovy christmas day too!

cappy2112 wrote:

These are not errors.
Code:
"nord.module.Mode instance at 0x00FEB058"
means "an object of type nord.Module.Mode was instantiated, and it's id reference is 0x00FEB058 ". Python doesn't have the notion of addresses and pointers <snip> This object was apparently instantiated, but no methods in the class were invoked


Good explanation. My first instinct is that if G2ools uses python objects to represent G2 synthesis modules, and that if g2cat.py calls a specific method for each object to print out information - but that on those lines above - the information did not print out... then there's:

    1. code missing to print information when g2cat displays the inventory
    2. code missing to store information in the first place when g2ools reads the pch2 file
    3. a problem with both: (e.g. something else stopping the flow of information between the pch2 parsing and the storing of information in the objects that g2cat accesses to display the inventory)


G2ools is so large and spread out over multiple files that it's difficult to find each part of each file that relates to any specific thing. I'll do my best to look for the quad delay and low pass filter modules to rule out number 2 in the lsit above.

cappy2112 wrote:

would you try downloading the 1.24 Editor create the exact same patch- from scratch, then process it with UNMODIFIED g2ools again?


That's a big job, but i'll try!
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varice



Joined: Dec 29, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:39 am    Post subject: Try the original patch Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zenpho,

The "input.pch2" included in the your zipfile example of a problem patch appears to be a modified version of the original "dirty_technoMMM.pch2" posted by mother misty here:

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-43706.html#43706

I would suggest that you try to process the original patch and check the results.

Mother's patch was posted in June of 2005, before G2 OS version 1.40 was released in January 2006, which would mean that it was probably built with G2 OS version 1.32, the previous release in April 2005.

It appears that g2ools was developed after G2 OS 1.40 was released.

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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Try the original patch Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

varice wrote:
zenpho,

Mother's patch was posted in June of 2005, before G2 OS version 1.40 was released in January 2006, which would mean that it was probably built with G2 OS version 1.32, the previous release in April 2005.

It appears that g2ools was developed after G2 OS 1.40 was released.


Thanks varice. I was hoping someone would refresh my memory about the OS vs G2ools chronology.

So there IS a G2 OS version in between 1.24 and 1.40, I thought there was but could not find any references. I assume there is a corresponding Editor version as well. If you have the installer for the 1.32 editor, and the OS updated, would you PM them to me? I want to get them saved in the OS archive thread in this forum, so they are available for situations like this.

Also note that- Zenpho said he saved this patch with the 1.40 editor- but G2ools could not process it. Hopefully, the editor would update any fields in the patch file, so they are correct for that version of the editor, and remove any fields if they were no longer applicable.

thanks

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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: g2ools for engine owners
Subject description: novation remote zero + g2 engine = yay!
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zenpho wrote:


    1. code missing to print information when g2cat displays the inventory
    2. code missing to store information in the first place when g2ools reads the pch2 file
    3. a problem with both: (e.g. something else stopping the flow of information between the pch2 parsing and the storing of information in the objects that g2cat accesses to display the inventory)



4. The patch file is invalid/corrupted so that G2ools could not process it, even if G2ools is doing everything correctly.

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Last edited by cappy2112 on Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Try the original patch Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

varice wrote:

I would suggest that you try to process the original patch and check the results.


Ok- I've processed the Mother Misty modified patch (dirty_techno_MMM.pch2), with Zenpho's "read & write" python script- based on G2ools.


    Running MM's original file with Zenpho's R&W script, the header of the patch which is written IS modified, and there are many other differences as well.
    When I load the output patch in the 1.40 Editor, the editor crashes.



dirty_techno_mmm_header.jpg
 Description:
This is a diff of the patch header between Mother Misty's dirty_techno_MMM.pch2, and the patch created by Zenpho's python script.
The patch version is modified by G2ools. This is probably normal, although I don't know why it is necessary to modify the pat
 Filesize:  80.64 KB
 Viewed:  153 Time(s)
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dirty_techno_mmm_header.jpg



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varice



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Try the original patch Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
varice wrote:
zenpho,

Mother's patch was posted in June of 2005, before G2 OS version 1.40 was released in January 2006, which would mean that it was probably built with G2 OS version 1.32, the previous release in April 2005.

It appears that g2ools was developed after G2 OS 1.40 was released.


Thanks varice. I was hoping someone would refresh my memory about the OS vs G2ools chronology.

So there IS a G2 OS version in between 1.24 and 1.40, I thought there was but could not find any references. I assume there is a corresponding Editor version as well. If you have the installer for the 1.32 editor, and the OS updated, would you PM them to me? I want to get them saved in the OS archive thread in this forum, so they are available for situations like this.

Also note that- Zenpho said he saved this patch with the 1.40 editor- but G2ools could not process it. Hopefully, the editor would update any fields in the patch file, so they are correct for that version of the editor, and remove any fields if they were no longer applicable.

thanks


PM with version 1.32 sent. I tried to post it to the OS archive thread but I hit my upload limit.

I did notice that zenpho's "input.pch2" file had the blank name modules missing from mother misty's original patch and I did not want to assume that maybe it was not processed before being loaded and converted with the G2 1.40 Editor.

So, g2ools updates old version patch headers to look like a version 1.40 patch - probably not a good idea. At least one significant change to the 1.40 patch data was the addition of a mutation exclusion flag for most if not all of the patch modules. I'm not sure if the 1.40 or the 1.62 Editor relies on the header info for the patch version, but it may. The Editor being tricked into reading an old version patch that does not contain expected data may be a problem. In any case, I would also recommend that all patches be loaded and converted with at least the 1.40 Editor before being processed with g2ools.

cappy2112, did you try loading and converting mother's original patch with the 1.40 Editor and then processing with g2ools? If g2ools corrupts the patch after being converted, then that would point to a bug in the g2ools process that is probably not connected to the patch file version.

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qfingers



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Try the original patch Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

varice wrote:


I did notice that zenpho's "input.pch2" file had the blank name modules missing from mother misty's original patch and I did not want to assume that maybe it was not processed before being loaded and converted with the G2 1.40 Editor.

So, g2ools updates old version patch headers to look like a version 1.40 patch - probably not a good idea. At least one significant change to the 1.40 patch data was the addition of a mutation exclusion flag for most if not all of the patch modules. I'm not sure if the 1.40 or the 1.62 Editor relies on the header info for the patch version, but it may. The Editor being tricked into reading an old version patch that does not contain expected data may be a problem. In any case, I would also recommend that all patches be loaded and converted with at least the 1.40 Editor before being processed with g2ools.


The version that g2ools is written for is 1.42. I looked into supporting other versions but the format changed enough to not make it feasible. Even 1.62 which has nothing new has a format change which I think is stupid. Why? There is nothing that changed from 1.42. It took me about a month to reverse engineer 1.42. I looked into updating for 1.62. It was going to take too long and I was impatient.

I have set up an repository on http://github.com/msg/g2ools. This has my latest sources which have many bug fixes. I was hoping to release a 2.0 g2ools version but haven't had time. I'll post a message to the g2ools forum with all of the new stuff (which there is much).

I think some of the problems with the patch posted above were fixed as I loaded and saved the file using the g2ools code. Then I loaded into the 1.42 editor without problems. If there is a problem, it works with the current source code on github.com.

Hope that helps.

q
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Try the original patch Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

varice wrote:


PM with version 1.32 sent. I tried to post it to the OS archive thread but I hit my upload limit.


Got it-thanks!. I'lll look into getting this saved in the G2 Editor Archives.

Quote:

So, g2ools updates old version patch headers to look like a version 1.40 patch - probably not a good idea.

True- but at least we know we shouldn't expect any more editor/versions from Clavia, at this point.

Quote:

I would also recommend that all patches be loaded and converted with at least the 1.40 Editor before being processed with g2ools.


But I think Zenpho did this.

Quote:

cappy2112, did you try loading and converting mother's original patch with the 1.40 Editor and then processing with g2ools?

No. I took MM's original patch, then ran it thru Zenpho's script, which is only a small subset of what g2ools does. I will try saving it with 1.40, then running it thru Zenpho's script, and see if I can reload it with 1.40.

The author of g2ools has posted a message, with some info regarding changes in the patch versions.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Try the original patch Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

qfingers wrote:
varice wrote:


I did notice that zenpho's "input.pch2" file had the blank name modules missing from mother misty's original patch and I did not want to assume that maybe it was not processed before being loaded and converted with the G2 1.40 Editor.

So, g2ools updates old version patch headers to look like a version 1.40 patch - probably not a good idea. At least one significant change to the 1.40 patch data was the addition of a mutation exclusion flag for most if not all of the patch modules. I'm not sure if the 1.40 or the 1.62 Editor relies on the header info for the patch version, but it may. The Editor being tricked into reading an old version patch that does not contain expected data may be a problem. In any case, I would also recommend that all patches be loaded and converted with at least the 1.40 Editor before being processed with g2ools.


The version that g2ools is written for is 1.42. I looked into supporting other versions but the format changed enough to not make it feasible. Even 1.62 which has nothing new has a format change which I think is stupid. Why? There is nothing that changed from 1.42. It took me about a month to reverse engineer 1.42. I looked into updating for 1.62. It was going to take too long and I was impatient.

I have set up an repository on http://github.com/msg/g2ools. This has my latest sources which have many bug fixes. I was hoping to release a 2.0 g2ools version but haven't had time. I'll post a message to the g2ools forum with all of the new stuff (which there is much).

I think some of the problems with the patch posted above were fixed as I loaded and saved the file using the g2ools code. Then I loaded into the 1.42 editor without problems. If there is a problem, it works with the current source code on github.com.

Hope that helps.

q


Fantastic! The newer g2ools code does not corrupt the patch. That's good news!

I sure would like to thank you qfingers along with 3phase and others who worked on the g2ools NM and dx converters - what a great effort to build this. It is wonderful to hear some of my favorite NM patches come to life in my G2X.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: Try the original patch Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

varice wrote:
I tried to post it to the OS archive thread but I hit my upload limit.


Problem fixed.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem Fixed Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Problem fixed.


Thank you very much Jan Exclamation

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