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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Klee sequencer
6/8 , 12/8 and 3/4
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Sound



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:19 am    Post subject: 6/8 , 12/8 and 3/4 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello.

Would it be difficult to add a switch in the Klee circuit that in 16X1 mode cancels the last four steps ,13 ,14 ,15, and 16 allowing you to work with a 12X1 sequence? It would allow you to work with a 12/8 compound time signature as well as with 3/4 time signature.

Would it be difficult that this switch when the Klee is in 8X2 mode cancels the steps 7, 8, 15 and 16 allowing you to work with 6X2 sequences? It would allow you 6/8 rhythms as well as 3/4.





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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, there is a switch there that will allow it, depending on what you want to do. Very Happy

There are a number of ways of getting different time signatures out of the Klee.

The simplest method is using one bit sequences like a "normal" step sequencer.

For a 6X2 sequence, you could set bit 1 and bit 9 of the pattern to on, then set a gate bus switch to bus 1 on either stage 7 or stage 15. Then you'd set the Gate Bus 1 Load switch on and select 8X2 mode. For a 12X1 mode, you'd set the stage 13 gate bus switch to gate bus 1 in 16X1 mode.

Multiple bit patterns would be possible using this method as well, but you'd want to be sure that there were six steps before an active bit activated gate bus 1 (or 12 steps in the case of 12X1).

Another method is to use the random function as a means to create patterns that repeat either every six or twelve steps. In this case, you could create only one 6X1 pattern or one 12X1 pattern (because only register A can accept external data input).

In this case, you take merged gate output from the gate bus and treat it as a data input to the random input. The signal must be merged in order for it to be high when a clock signal arrives to clock it into the register.

Either Gate Bus 1 or Gate Bus 3 can be used for this (gate bus 2 could be as well, but the permutations are better left to experimentation than explanation here).

I'll pick on Gate Bus 1. For a six step repeating Klee pattern, set pattern bits 1 through six up to whatever pattern you're wanting to use. Set Step 6 only to Gate Bus 1. Set Gate Bus 1 Merge to On. Connect the Gate Bus 1 Gate Output to the Random Input. Now the same six bit pattern will cycle through steps 1 through 6. For 12 Step, do the same in 16X1 mode and have step 12 merged on gate bus 1. BTW, it's possible to use this method to create much, much longer sequences using Invert B.

Finally, using an external divider, you can create any time signature you want as well. In this case, feed the clock driving the Klee into the divider as well. Tap off of the divider to the external load input. If you tap from divide by six, the pattern will reload every six steps, divide by 12 would give you the 12X1, etc.

If you wanted to add a switch that would specifically switch 12X1 or 2X6, regardless of the pattern, you'd probably need to rig the last method I mentioned (external counter to reload). You'd probably want to rig the manual reset to it as well, so it would always be in lockstep to what you were doing.

Cheerio,
Scott

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:


The simplest method is using one bit sequences like a "normal" step sequencer.

For a 6X2 sequence, you could set bit 1 and bit 9 of the pattern to on, then set a gate bus switch to bus 1 on either stage 7 or stage 15. Then you'd set the Gate Bus 1 Load switch on and select 8X2 mode. For a 12X1 mode, you'd set the stage 13 gate bus switch to gate bus 1 in 16X1 mode.

Multiple bit patterns would be possible using this method as well, but you'd want to be sure that there were six steps before an active bit activated gate bus 1 (or 12 steps in the case of 12X1).



Aha! Now I found it on the docs! this is about the parallel programing, the different ways to load a pattern, one of them is through the Bus 1 Load Switch, so if the Gate Bus 1 Load switch is ON, each time that Bus one receive a trigg the pattern is load automatically, and it means that it is reseted.

Very nice!

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, thinking about this matter...

Actually I only understand completely the first method that you have explained, Scott. I thought that I will understand completely the others ways playing with my future Klee Very Happy .

I see that with the bus 1 reload(very useful issue) I can achieve the 6/8 and the 12/8 sequences but I loose one bus. And with the other method I need an external module.

The bus 1 reload always will be useful to me to other non basic sequences but for the 6/8 and 12/8 sequences -which they are sequences that I want to investigate a lot- it will be good to have the full power of the Klee with its three buses so I think that it will be better an a dedicated switch.

I was thinking looking at the schematics and! if I change the SW340 8x2/16x1 by a DPDT switch fff! better I add a picture because It is difficult to me explain that in English! well I try... if I change the SW340 8x2/16x1 by a DPDT switch I can control also the sequences 6x2/12x1 taking the pulses of the steps 7 and 12 directly. And also is needed add an switch to enable the function.

Better see the picture.

My question is : Would it work?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have been looking at the CD453 data, but I did not achieve to understand when 8X2 mode is enabled: Is it when the switch340 is open? or when it is closed/grounded?

In any case look at the picture. I think that it is better than the other option showed in picture before. would it work? does it have sense?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The theory of operation thread, while incomplete, does mention this:

Quote:
In the 8X2 mode, Switch 340 (the 8X2/16X1 Mode Switch) is closed, which puts a low signal on control pins 9 and 10 of U9.


The thread is here:

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-22251.html

In the meantime, gimme a second to think about this - I think you could use the Bus 1 Switch, along with an enable switch, to do the same thing, and you wouldn't be restricted to being in 8X2 or 16X1 in order to do certain things.

Standby Very Happy

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK (duurrrhhh) I see why you predicated the mode on the 8X2/16X1 switch. Your idea is sound, and I think would probably work for you as it is.

Here's an alternate method that would eliminate adding the extra enable switch - this changes the Gate Bus 1 switch from a SPST to a SPDT ON-OFF-ON switch and replaces the 8X2/16X1 switch with a DPDT ON-ON switch (as per your idea).

The way that this would work is that center position of the gate bus 1 load switch would be "off" - neither gatebus load or 6X2/12X1 would be active.

Putting the Gatebus1 Load Switch in the up position would be normal gatebus 1 load operation.

Putting it in the down position would put both registers in 6X1 mode if the 8X2/16X1 switch is in "8X2" position. If the 8X2/16X1 switch is in the 16X1 position, then the registers would be in 12 step mode.

Bear in mind whatever you do along these lines, if you have a multi-bit Klee pattern, the labels will not be relevant Very Happy

Cheerioios,
Scott


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually, Sound, you've come across a mod that is actually quite versatile for 1 bit (normal sequecing). With this mod, you can have any length of sequence fifteen and below without sacrificing a gate bus. What a head slapper.

Here's what I suggest you do - instead of tapping off of stages 7 and 13, tap off of stages 8 and 16.

The Klee differs from "normal" step sequencers in that you can choose any starting point for a pattern. It doesn't "reset" really, it "reloads". That difference makes it easy to get any length of sequence you want using the switches that are already there.

For example, let's deal with your desired 6 step sequence, only you've got step 8 starting the reload. For your one bit pattern, you just set pattern switch 2 to on. You will then have a six step sequence. The Klee will count 2-3-4-5-6-7 then start over again and repeat 2-3-4-5-6-7. That's a six step sequence. For a four step sequence, set pattern switch 4 on. Now you have a four step sequence, and so on. In 16X1 Mode, if you set pattern switch 4 on, you will have a twelve step sequence: 4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15. The length of the sequence will be 16 minus the pattern bit you set (16 - pattern switch 4 = 12). For 8X2 it would be (8 - pattern bit 4 = 4).

This is all possible with bus 1 load (or connecting a different bus to external load), but your method does not tie up a gate bus. Splendid!

Cheerio,
Scott

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aha! I didn't understand!

Is for that that you have suggested to share a SPDT ON-OFF-ON switch, with the bus 1 load function. Because it is a Load mode! I thought that was a mode function!

Quote:
Actually, Sound, you've come across a mod that is actually quite versatile for 1 bit (normal sequencing)


Yes but with your suggestion of tapping off the stages 8 and 16 instead 7 and 13 that I said... you have more than one bit!

Say that in 1X16 mode we put the pattern switch four ON... we have now a 12X1 sequence but! we can turn ON the switches one, two and three... so we have more than one bit ON Very Happy

We can call this function "End of Cycle Load"? Very Happy

But thinking in 6X8 and 12X8 times like a mode function, and that would be fine to work in these times with a full Klee sequences... What do you think about the picture following. Would it work?


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi! I just have breadboarded the stage encoder of the Klee circuit plus the "clock in" and the "manual load". (Digital board schematics, pages 2 and 3)

All is running OK. The light is running through the LEDs! It is Beautiful.

It is too late 04h AM! Tomorrow I will Investigate CD4034 behavior. Good night!

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool! Which form of your mod did you go for?

Cheerio,
Scott

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Scott!

With the bread board I have tried some possibilities for achieve a Klee that would be able to run under 6X2 and 12X1 as well 8X2 and 16X1 without lose any characteristics of the klee.

So, I have tried:

(See schematics of the digital board page 3)

IN 8X2 mode:
1) If:
Pattern load: 1000 0000 0000 0000
Led runs: 1 then 2 then 3- 4- 5- 6- 7- 8- 1- 2- 3 ...

2) If:
Pattern load: 1000 0000 0000 0000
CD4034 PIN3 (B6) connected to CD4053 PIN 2, 3 (Z1,Y0)
Led runs: 1 then 2 - 3- 4- 5- 6- (1, 7)- (2, 8 )- 3- 4- 5- 6- (1, 7) - (2, 8 )- 3 ...

3) If:
Pattern load: 0000 0010 0000 0000
CD4034 PIN3 (B6) connected to CD4053 PIN 2, 3 (Z1,Y0)
Led runs: 7 then 8 and it stops (good!)

4) If:
Pattern load: 1000 0000 0000 0000
CD4034 PIN3 (B6) connected to CD4053 PIN 2, 3 (Z1,Y0)
CD4034 PIN 1,2 (B7,B8 ) NOT connected.
Led runs: 1 then 2- 3- 4- 5- 6- 1- 2- 3- 4- 5- 6- 1- 2...
Very Happy

5) If:

Pattern load: 1010 0000 0000 0000
CD4034 PIN3 (B6) connected to CD4053 PIN 2, 3 (Z1,Y0)
CD4034 PIN 1,2 (B7,B8 ) NOT connected.
Led runs: (1, 3) then (2, 4)- (3, 5)- (4, 6)- (5, 1)- (6, 2)- (1, 3)- (2, 4)- (3, 5)- (4, 6)- (5, 1)- (6, 2)...

IN 16X1 mode:
6) If:

Pattern load: 1010 0000 0000 0000
CD4034 PIN3 (B6) connected to CD4053 PIN 2, 3 (Z1,Y0)
CD4034 PIN 1,2 (B7,B8 ) NOT connected.
Led runs: See the video bellow.





So I think that I achieved it. Very Happy

But I need two 3PDT toggle switches. One for _select B6 or B8 to U9- _disconnect B7 - _disconnect B8 for the CD4034 U6 and other for the same job for the CD4034 U7. They are too big, and the front panel is too busy...

I hope that this mod don't damage any part of the circuit, Is it possible?




Thanks!
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