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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
problem synching with ableton live.
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thesmallisbeautiful



Joined: Jun 26, 2008
Posts: 22
Location: NYC/LA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:14 pm    Post subject: problem synching with ableton live. Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have just patched a sort of complex drumsynth, which I was hoping to run alongside ableton live. I just tried syncing the two, with ableton as master, and with the G2 as master, and both times every 3 bars or so there is a VERY noticeable hiccup and the timing goes completely off. I know that midi clock is a pretty weak way to sync things up, but it's all I get with this (or is it?). In my former analog days I used to use an mpc1000 as the master clock and everything went pretty smooth. Ableton stayed with the mpc, doepfer stayed with the mpc as long as I hit the reset switch at the beginning and after any major tempo changes. It was a lot of cables, but it stayed together.

I don't know what to do about this however. Running the G2 alongside ableton was the whole point of getting it. I am a bit dumbfounded.

Does anyone have any advice on getting these guys to sync up reliably? Please tell me there's some thing I forgot to do, some easy solution.
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gomidas



Joined: Jul 09, 2004
Posts: 359
Location: La Ciotat, France
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G2 patch files: 6

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

With Ableton as master try to use a usb interface port ONLY for sync and another for the notes...it is better, but not perfect...
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thesmallisbeautiful



Joined: Jun 26, 2008
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Location: NYC/LA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I actually have it clocking out of my soundcard (firewire) and into the G2 through a midi cable. I am only using it for sync, not for any notes, still no good.

I wonder if I break out the old mpc to become master clock again if it will help out. Like if I clock the G2 to the mpc, and have ableton running MTC instead of clock sync. What a headache.

Any idea if this is ableton dropping the ball or Clavia? This is a huge flaw for me. The first problem I have encountered.
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Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When doing MIDI clock, most opinions that I have seen here are that you should use a hardware unit as master, not a software program. Also, the G2 is more sensitive than most synths when it comes to glitches in the MIDI clock timing. My setup is Electribe SX -> DSI Evolver -> NMG2 -> Ableton Live, and this works fairly OK, though when recording like this into Live there will be many warp markers in the sample afterwards, although I am usually able to simply switch warp off then on for that sample and have an OK result.

Having experimented a bit with MIDI clock from and to a Java program, I am a bit confused by its instability - messages are lost regularly etc. I have a hunch that the MIDI clock receive algorithms in gear and applications are more advanced than I've previously thought.

/Stefan

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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:
When doing MIDI clock, most opinions that I have seen here are that you should use a hardware unit as master, not a software program.


Hmmmm, I think that will depend a lot on the exact hard and software used and their application at the moment. If either component is very percussive that could be a reason to make that (more timing sensitive) one master.... depending on how it's implemented. I could swear I can hear then NM play more tightly when slaved to a Atari then when running on it's internal clock (!!!!?).

With Live I'm inclined to make Live master but that's partially because Live also has decent MIDI routing facilities. Obviously Live will depend on your MIDi device, your OS and the "health" of your OS's install. Other processes can interrupt MIDI processing, running task-manager in Windows or "top" on the OSX terminal will tell you what processes are doing what, see if something can be kicked out (I tend to do this like a demented dictator on PCP, most people are more gentle about it....).

Quote:

Having experimented a bit with MIDI clock from and to a Java program, I am a bit confused by its instability - messages are lost regularly etc. I have a hunch that the MIDI clock receive algorithms in gear and applications are more advanced than I've previously thought.


It's tricky. MIDI clock pulse is a single byte message that can (and should!) interupt other messages. It's perfectly valid to have two of the three bytes of a note-on, followed by a clock pulse byte followed by the last note-byte (being velocity). This is how it *should* be done but obviously that's harder and many manufacturers drop the ball there, which can lead to jitter. The messages shouldn't be lost but I believe some applications drop messages that have -for some reason- be in the cue for too long. Because MIDI is serial there will always be a cue, BTW. If you made your own program with your own implementation you may want to make sure you are sticking to MIDI's baud-rate, if you go over it then there will be issues due to a full cue. DAW's typically deal with this by pruning, for example by dropping some CC messages inbetween others that are on the same channel&CC.

Considering that Live and the Modulars tend to play nice together most of the time (and I feel they complement each other quite nicely) and this issue is now reported for a specific patch it might be interesting to try to verify if this also happens with more simple patches used in the same context; that would be my first stop. It might be some issue with the patch. Anything to avoid having to look at the data that's actually being send and diagnose that....

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thesmallisbeautiful



Joined: Jun 26, 2008
Posts: 22
Location: NYC/LA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So I fired up the old system today and lo and behold, no issues at all.

Live as master, everything runs smoothly.

It may be because I was using "guru" as a plugin before and this time only used audio, or it may just be that I needed a restart or something, but for now it's working. I want to keep testing it before using this setup live, but it seems like it might work after all. Thank god.

Does anyone have a good way to keep the "1"'s the same? I was thinking of having a midi loop running in live that sends a note every couple bars or so and in the G2 have that note turn into a logic high signal that activates a momentary on/off switch attached to the reset.

Any other ideas?
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