Native instruments absynth and reaktor? soooo mysterious @#?

BaronVonNoize · Joined: Jul 31, 2004 Posts: 6

cheers mates, this is my first post... and i really want to start making my own electronic experimental stuff. I've demo tested FL studio, reason, cubase sx, but so far i'm most impressed with the demo's of NI's absynth and reaktor. people say it's totally different software from Logic, Cubase sx, fl studio, reason, ableton live 4, etc etc... but so far I haven't been told what's really different. I love the looks and layout and feel of NI's absynth and reaktor, and thats the software i really want to buy since it's price range isn't ridiculous like logic or cubase sx, and requires more skill then reason and fl studio. I'm not knocking FL or reason, they are both excellent pieces of software capable of many things... but you gotta go with what you feel and naturally like, and Im the side of Native instruments so far. So any NI junkies hangin' around? any pro's or cons to reaktor or absynth? compared to great software such as cubase sx, logic, ableton live 4, project 5, reason and fl etcetc etc... I want to create experimental tracks with glitched beats, eerie melodies, with field recordings, and real instruments such as guitar, banjo, piano, sometimes vocals, harmonica, basically anything i can get my hands on. Can i achieve all this with native intruments? Ok this seems to go on forever...it would be awesome to hear from somebody that has used FL, Reason, cubase, logic, and have also used Reaktor or absynth... I'm really curious about these native instruments. Also here is a dumb, and easy to answer question that i just thought of, what is the difference between sequencer software and software synthesizers??? heh, thanks all

play · Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:58 pm Post subject:

I am a Reaktor nut. It's one of my favorite pieces of software. The way that it's different from cubase et al is that there is no advanced sequencing. You can build sequencers but it's hard to score a long piece that way. Most of the sequencers I've built are for patten based stuff but you can do a lot of things. It just requires more attention during performance. Another thing that I love about Reaktor and all the NI stuff, really, is the sound quality. It has the warmest, closest to analog signal I've heard coming out of a computer. You can do realtime recording and pretty much everything else that the "pro audio studios" (i.e. cubase) do it's just a different kind of interface.

I find absynth a little bit limiting. It seems kind of pointless because you could essentially build the whole program in reaktor. I guess it's better for people without the energy to really delve into what makes a digital sound and would rather have fun tweaking. The support for using samples is a little weak, imo but it sounds stellar.

So yeah. Generally NI kicks ass. I would be devoted to them for life if they came out with a good sequencer.

mosc · Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 10:11 pm Post subject:

I've never used any NI programs, but I just wanted to say hello and welcome

I don't think there are any dumb questions, BTW.

paul e.

Mohoyoho · Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 10:38 pm Post subject:

I use Reaktor and Absynth quite a bit. I love them. They are soft synths and are quite different than FL or Cubase. You would use soft synths in the FL and Cubase environment. Think of Cubase as a recording studio with a multitrack recorder and mixer. The NI synths would be intruments that you would record in Cubase's tracks. Cubase may come with some instruments as well, but I don't know because I use its competitor, Sonar. From what I have read NI makes intruments that work in both Mac and PC environments, but they tend to favor PC (especially when it comes to upgrades.) Reaktor comes in two versions: Reaktor and Reaktor Session. Regular Reaktor is more expensive because it allows you to build your own intstruments. Sessions allows you to play and tweak instruments. The learning curve for Reaktor is fairly steep. The Reaktor library has over 1000 instruments of various qualities available free for registered users. Absynth might be a bit easier because it is only one instrument. Absynth is unique because it has very powerful and flexible envelopes for most parameters. You can create some pretty involved, lengthy and organic sounding patches with Absynth. There are hundreds if not a thousand or more free patches available for Absynth. If you are knew to emusic, I would recommend starting with Absynth. Then move on to Reaktor Sessions. If you plan to create your own music with multiple tracks you will need a sequencer like Cubase or Sonar. If you are a PC user, there is a great hybrid program that incorporates a basic sequencer and many useful instruments called Project 5. Reason is very simlar to Project 5. Hope this helps.

elektro80 · Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:25 am Post subject:

I concur with the advice you have gotten here already. These two thingies are instruments and they can be used both as plugins and as standalone instruments. In order to record them you would want a DAW like Cubase or whatever.

Both Absynth and Reaktor are great. If you are new to all this then I guess Absynth is the best choice.

zynthetix · Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:33 am Post subject:

Reaktor is a very powerful and flexible program, but it has a learning curve (like most other things). Even if you are very familiar with analog synthesis, it still takes a bit of time to learn how reaktor "does" analog synthesis techniques because some of it is not very intuitive. If you are interested in building synth architecture or patching, reaktor can probably do what you want, just be prepared to spend quite a bit of time with the manual. As others have mentioned, if you are new to this stuff, absynth and reaktor sessions might be the way to go.

play · Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:31 am Post subject:

I don't think there's a particular need for sequencing/recording software if you are running reaktor. it just depends on how you make music. There are many sequencing possibilities, but you don't have a staff and piano roll. But you can copy/paste patterns, save sequences to files,create algorithmic controls, etc. You can also record to disk.

BaronVonNoize · Joined: Jul 31, 2004 Posts: 6

Good deal, I did alot of research and reading... and i have an idea of what i should start with. Somebody mentioned project 5, so i read everything possible on it and it's looking pretty impressive review wise, forum wise, demo wise. So far i've gathered it's just like reason but alot say it's a bit better ( you can bring in any DXi or VSTi and use it in P5 just as easily as you play a P5 softsynth, also you can use all native instruments softsynths in p5, good deal. ) Also it can just about do anything sonar can do, so you don't necessarily NEED to choke out hundreds more for sonar 3 or cubase sx. So i was thinking about using Project 5 in conjunction with NI absynth ( after messing around with absynth , if i feel comfortable i will get Reaktor 4, besides i can't afford it all in one shot anyway... i make shit for money ) All together, It seems a deadly mixture would be Project 5/Absynth/Reaktor 4, p5 seems to blow acid 4 out of the water, it blows the Ableton Live away too because it can use soft synths and has editors and loop wise, it shatters Reason's Dr. Rex. So in the end, what do you guys think of this mixture? thanks very much to all...this forum is extremely helpful. And thanks a bunch to Mohoyoho, mentioning Project 5. Also i have to score some midi keyboard controllers, can anyone recommend something?

paul e. · Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:57 pm Post subject:

M-Audio Oxygen 8

functionality and good price

btw..is it possible to record linear tracks in Project 5? like a guitar or vocals ?
becuase you mentioned you also wanted to do that kind of thing

Mohoyoho · Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:34 pm Post subject:

Yes, you will need a midi keyboard controller like the Oxygen. I'm not sure Project 5 has a multitrack recorder like Sonar, but it does have piano roll sequencing. I think Project 5 and a keyboard is an excellent way to start. You can always add VSTs and DXIs later as well as a multitrack sequencer (via Rewire) later. I also like the customer support Cakewalk offers.

play · Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:47 pm Post subject:

Live 4, which just came out, has rewire support and VST support as well as much more advanced sequencing than earlier versions. The last time I used it was 1.5 and the new features are calling me back:

http://www.ableton.com/forums.html?main=live&sub=FeatureList

It's a very intuitive program as well. Mostly you just click and drag where you think you should and it works.

BaronVonNoize · Joined: Jul 31, 2004 Posts: 6

Well it seems good stuff keeps popping up all over the place, which means tons more reading and demo testing. I demo tested Ableton live 4 for a bit, the layout and display is very different from most of the stuff i mess with, i found myself a bit bewildered actually. But I'm gonna keeping testing P5 and Live4, there can be only one!--Master shake ( of course there can be more the one...just had to use a aqua teen hunger force line ) God wouldn't it be nifty if Native instruments tossed out a all out Sequencer for us? It's like 7:30 am and i'm zombified...but this forum rules and i have many more questions, for now it's battle of the demo's...which one can survive me, or rather... what can i survive.

elektro80 · Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:00 am Post subject:

Just for the record: Live is not a DAW. Live is a kind of meta instrument.
Consider the old statement from way back in the 70s.. "The studio is an instrument". OK.. what Live is .. is a kind of creative tool that uses DAW and sampler and looping concepts.. but the sum is something completely different. They might turn it into a fullblown DAW suite.. but I doubt it. Live is everything a conventional DAW is not. When you demo it, keep that in mind.

Expect that loop oriented samplers will start to get similar features like Live ... hmm.. whn I think of it.. it semms that trend has already started.

...You also have lowend versions of DAWs.. like Cubase SE.. which is quite decent.. but among the many things thrown out is the surround mix section.

Kraken · Joined: Aug 10, 2004 Posts: 26 Location: Spain

Salud!

If you are new to this, I think both Reaktor and Absynth are a bit too much, specially Absynth.

You can use Reaktor as a preset-synth box while you learn to program it (BTW, you can record Reaktor "performances" without and external DAW, but I'd recommend a DAW anyway), but Absynth... There are a lot of great softsynths (many of them freeware) that sound great and are not as frustrating to learn. Smile

My two cents.

Mohoyoho · Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:35 am Post subject:

Now I found Absynth easier to learn. Reaktor is so huge and daunting, and there are so many synths that you don't know where to begin. Each synth's designs and modulations are different from each other. Absynth's presets are so easy to get to and play. You can also record and do sound on sound with it. Don't get me wrong, I use Reaktor extensively in my studio as well as live. I would say it is my favorite soft synth. But starting off I think Absynth would be easier. Absynth does have an unusual interface, but I find it easy to learn. The envelope module interface is somewhat involved, but once learned the power of Absynth is revealed. To me, Absynth's envelopes are what sets it apart from most synths.
Overall, I am happy I settled in with NI. As well as Absynth and Reaktor I have Pro 53, which is another great soft synth. It's easier to learn than the other two.
For a fee synth, I think Crystal is pretty amazing. Other than it's effects module, it's not too hard to figure out.

seraph · Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:25 pm Post subject:

Mohoyoho · Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:28 pm Post subject:

That's a good users group. It's better than the NI's own Absynth Forum. Brian Clevinger, Absynth's developer, is quick to answer questions. You'll like A2. The ability to import samples and do some granular synthing is quite nice. All the envelopes can now have individual lfo's.

play · Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:04 pm Post subject:

the curve for reaktor is steep compared to absynth but it's not as steep as max which is an entire paradigm unto itself and what you get is immense amount of control over your sounds and a lot of freedom.

I'd love to see some of your reaktor instruments mohoyoho.

Mohoyoho · Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:44 am Post subject:

I don't make any instruments. I just tweak them and make my own patches. Maybe someday. Some of the users have really made some amazing stuff. Martin Brinkmann is probably one of my favorite designers.

diskonext · Joined: Aug 26, 2004 Posts: 307 Location: London, UK

A plus for Max/MSP or it's open source equivalent pd (pure data) compared to Reaktor is the wealth of programming examples and detailed help available for each element.

Once you get the hang of building your own DSP-chains the switch to Reaktor is not too harsh. Reaktor is a lot more user-friendly and less twiddly than Max/MSP (in my opinion).

-diskonext