electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Jez Adventures in Sound
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » OSX as a music workstation
Question about the terminal
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: elektro80
Page 1 of 1 [17 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Alexander



Joined: Apr 22, 2006
Posts: 374
Location: 's Hertogenbosch, NL
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 4

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:33 pm    Post subject: Question about the terminal Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How is it that I can keep going in Darwin??

:/private/tftpboot/private/tftpboot/private/tftpboot/private(..etcetera)

I don't know the ins and outs of a mac folderstructure and or the way it's represented in the terminal, but is this normal??

Can anybody check if they have the same folders and the same results and/or tell me what is happening!

Thank you! Very Happy

_________________
http://husc-sound.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21977
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Huh... you are seeing a loop?
Shocked

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
brinxmat



Joined: Oct 24, 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Questions:

Are the folders otherwise empty? If not, do they share the same internal structure (i.e. /public/tftpboot has the same structure as /public/tftpboot/public/tftpboot)?

Things to try:

if you "pwd" when you're down in this folder, what result do you get?

/private/tftpboot, or /private/tftpboot/private/tftpboot/private/tftpboot...?

try

ls -lF

which will show links etc... (with @ or -->) which might be what is happening here, and then try

ls -aR

which will recurse to the total depth of this folder.

Googling "/public/tftpboot/public/tftpboot" returns a results that show that this is not a good thing, but I cannot see anything that refers directly to this problem.

_________________
-- Say "&Eth;onne hit wæs hrenig weðer"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21977
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Are we talking Darwin or OS X?
_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
brinxmat



Joined: Oct 24, 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It shouldn't matter, but it probably does.
_________________
-- Say "&Eth;onne hit wæs hrenig weðer"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21977
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, there might be slightly different reasons for certain bugs.. Anyways.. a loop might be possible if the filesystem has gotten its kneecaps shot off and a dysfunctional symbolic link might be in on the mess too. Kinda like your average Rolling Stones World Tour
_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
brinxmat



Joined: Oct 24, 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

...the rogue installer ... HFS+-meets-POSIX hilarity. Any of these options would be depressing.
_________________
-- Say "&Eth;onne hit wæs hrenig weðer"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
opg



Joined: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 954
Location: Berkeley, CA, US
Audio files: 3

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I had the same problem several months ago. It was a pain in the ASS. I had to re-install the OS. Well, twice, since I didn't choose the right options in the Archive and Install tab. Embarassed
_________________
One Player Game | OPG on SoundCloud
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Alexander



Joined: Apr 22, 2006
Posts: 374
Location: 's Hertogenbosch, NL
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 4

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

brinxmat wrote:
Questions:

Are the folders otherwise empty? If not, do they share the same internal structure (i.e. /public/tftpboot has the same structure as /public/tftpboot/public/tftpboot)?


They have the exact same content and structure, so I guess it's a loop.

Quote:

Things to try:

if you "pwd" when you're down in this folder, what result do you get?

/private/tftpboot, or /private/tftpboot/private/tftpboot/private/tftpboot...?


I get /private/tftpboot/private/tftpboot...

Quote:

try

ls -lF


I can't make sense of the results:

drwxr-xr-x 6 root wheel 204 Jan 10 17:02 private/
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 Apr 28 2005 etc@ -> private/etc
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 Apr 28 2005 tmp@ -> private/tmp
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 Apr 28 2005 var@ -> private/var

But if @ means a link, then I can see the loop. Is that what's happening? Can you explain why I have those folders and those links or do I need to dive into my documentation and study to find that out.

Quote:

which will show links etc... (with @ or -->) which might be what is happening here, and then try

ls -aR

which will recurse to the total depth of this folder.


I think it's printing my entire computer's content, but I don't see any weird loops or strange folders.

Quote:

Googling "/public/tftpboot/public/tftpboot" returns a results that show that this is not a good thing, but I cannot see anything that refers directly to this problem.


I maybe forgot to mention that I stumbled upon this by accident and that I have no problems with my powerbook. It works perfect and I was more curious than shocked.
Thank you very much for giving me some insight, I'll take my laptop to school and have someone there check it out as well, but to be honest I don't think it's a big problem.

What now? Question

_________________
http://husc-sound.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
v-un-v
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 8934
Location: Birmingham, England, UK
Audio files: 11
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is completely out of my depth, but have you tried repairing disk permissions?

My old man's girlfriend had a similar problem a couple of years back- only a complete OS reinstall fixed the problem.

I met a bloke today who has been an apple nut for years (a professional illustrator and printer) who hadn't even heard of disk utility! Shocked

Personally I never go anywhere near the terminal. It's about as scary as Microsoft's System recovery console Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
brinxmat



Joined: Oct 24, 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The '@ ->'s do indeed indicate symbolic links, but I don't see any self reference here to tftpboot (such as "tftboot@ --> private/tftpboot).

Quote:
drwxr-xr-x 6 root wheel 204 Jan 10 17:02 private/
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 Apr 28 2005 etc@ -> private/etc
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 Apr 28 2005 tmp@ -> private/tmp
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 Apr 28 2005 var@ -> private/var


These symlinks should be here -- I think. Is fink installed?

_________________
-- Say "&Eth;onne hit wæs hrenig weðer"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alexander



Joined: Apr 22, 2006
Posts: 374
Location: 's Hertogenbosch, NL
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 4

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I never installed fink, I do have the Xcode install, which could contain similiar products.
I need to start learning about permissions etcetera, I simply don't have the time right now, but I feel, looking at the results below, there should be an answer in there somewhere.

From /private it "ls -lF" prints:

total 0
drwxr-xr-x 86 root wheel 2924 Nov 29 16:57 etc/
drwxr-xr-x 5 root wheel 170 Apr 28 2005 tftpboot/
drwxrwxrwt 6 root wheel 204 Jan 12 15:27 tmp/
drwxr-xr-x 24 root wheel 816 Jan 12 14:36 var/

From /private/tftpboot/ :

total 0
drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 102 Apr 15 2005 hwdiags/
drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 102 Mar 26 2005 private/
drwxr-xr-x 8 root wheel 272 Apr 28 2005 xrdiags/

From /private/tftpboot/private

total 8
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1 Apr 28 2005 tftpboot@ -> /

(that's it, right?)

From /prrivate/tftpboot/private/tftpboot

total 13874
drwxr-xr-x 18 alexande admin 612 Dec 18 18:56 Alexander/
drwxrwxr-x 60 root admin 2040 Dec 4 19:55 Applications/
-rw-rw-rw- 1 alexande admin 512 Dec 13 2005 Auth-DigitalPerformer 4.5
-rwxrwxrwx 1 alexande alexande 516 Dec 13 2005 DP 4.61 Installer Log*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 65024 Sep 26 07:41 Desktop DB
-rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 337906 Aug 14 20:54 Desktop DF
drwxrwxr-x 16 root admin 544 Nov 9 21:51 Developer/
-rwxrwxrwx 1 alexande alexande 1638 Nov 29 2005 Installer Log File*
-rwxrwxrwx 1 alexande admin 1710918 Sep 17 2005 LWDocInstall.txt*
drwxrwxr-t 46 root admin 1564 Mar 23 2006 Library/
drwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 512 Jan 12 14:37 Network/
drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 136 Apr 11 2006 System/
drwxrwxrwt 3 alexande admin 102 Apr 12 2006 Temporary Items/
drwxrwxrwx 3 root admin 102 Sep 16 2005 TheVolumeSettingsFolder/
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 60 Sep 17 2005 User Guides And Information@ -> /Library/Documentation/User Guides and Information.localized
drwxrwxr-t 6 root admin 204 Sep 21 2005 Users/
drwxrwxrwt 6 root admin 204 Jan 12 14:49 Volumes/
drwxr-xr-x 4 root admin 136 Sep 19 2005 automount/
drwxr-xr-x 40 root wheel 1360 Jul 27 22:14 bin/
drwxrwxr-t 2 root admin 68 Mar 23 2005 cores/
dr-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Jan 12 14:36 dev/
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 Apr 28 2005 etc@ -> private/etc
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 9 Jan 12 14:36 mach@ -> /mach.sym
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 603684 Jan 12 14:36 mach.sym
-rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 4343332 Sep 27 09:35 mach_kernel
drwxr-xr-x 6 root wheel 204 Jan 12 14:36 private/
drwxr-xr-x 63 root wheel 2142 Oct 9 00:12 sbin/
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 Apr 28 2005 tmp@ -> private/tmp
drwxr-xr-x 13 root wheel 442 Nov 9 21:42 usr/
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 Apr 28 2005 var@ -> private/var

_________________
http://husc-sound.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brinxmat



Joined: Oct 24, 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

XCode shouldn't cause problems.

Quote:
From /private/tftpboot/private

total 8
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1 Apr 28 2005 tftpboot@ -> /


That is indeed it: the loop resides here.

You have a symlink to "/" the root directory, which explains why the contents of / is present in "/prrivate/tftpboot/private/tftpboot".

From my own observations /private should contain at least the following files: etc, tmp, var, which are what /etc, /tmp, /var are symlinks to. You also get a few other things in /private (such as tftpboot, netboot, etc.)

I cannot think how things have got like this: is the system a fresh install of a particular OS X, or an upgraded version of the OS (say from 10.2 to 10.4)?

The situation is not necessarily good: verify your disk using disk utility.

_________________
-- Say "&Eth;onne hit wæs hrenig weðer"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alexander



Joined: Apr 22, 2006
Posts: 374
Location: 's Hertogenbosch, NL
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 4

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am trying the same as above on an apple at school and I get almost the same results!

The /private/tftpboot/private/... is also there and I guess the links are also all the same..

Could you tell me something about the consequences or the possible reason why a loop occurs?

this is from :/private/tftpboot/private/tftpboot

total 12962
drwxrwxr-x 53 root admin 1802 Dec 4 16:45 Applications/
-rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 229888 Dec 13 11:02 Desktop DB
-rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 642882 Dec 22 12:56 Desktop DF
drwxrwxr-x 15 root admin 510 Sep 21 2005 Developer/
drwxrwxrwx 5 student admin 170 Nov 21 12:01 Digidesign Databases/
drwxrwxrwx 3 student student 102 Aug 18 2005 Digidesign Installer Log files/
-rwxrwxrwx 1 student student 384 Oct 20 10:15 InterLok Extensions Install Log*
-rw-r--r-- 1 student student 73754 Jan 1 2004 InterLok Extensions READ ME.pdf
drwxrwxr-t 53 root admin 1802 Sep 21 2005 Library/
-rw-r--r-- 1 student admin 191 Mar 28 2006 Logic PM Database
-rw-r--r-- 1 student admin 396414 Jan 15 14:27 Logic7 PM Database
drwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 512 Jan 16 15:46 Network/
drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 136 Aug 23 10:59 System/
drwxrwxrwx 3 root admin 102 Aug 23 11:03 TheVolumeSettingsFolder/
drwxrwxr-t 7 root admin 238 Jul 13 2005 Users/
drwxrwxrwt 7 root admin 238 Jan 16 15:34 Volumes/
drwxr-xr-x 4 root admin 136 Nov 12 2004 automount/
drwxr-xr-x 40 root wheel 1360 Aug 23 10:32 bin/
dr-xr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Jan 16 15:30 dev/
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 Aug 23 13:48 etc@ -> private/etc
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 9 Jan 16 15:30 mach@ -> /mach.sym
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 603684 Jan 16 15:30 mach.sym
-rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 4343332 Sep 27 09:35 mach_kernel
drwxr-xr-x 6 root wheel 204 Jan 16 15:30 private/
drwxr-xr-x 63 root wheel 2142 Nov 16 15:03 sbin/
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 Aug 23 15:20 tmp@ -> private/tmp
drwxr-xr-x 11 root wheel 374 Oct 20 10:15 usr/
lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 11 Aug 23 15:30 var@ -> private/var
drwxr-xr-x 3 student admin 102 Nov 1 17:27 z.bak/
-rw-r--r-- 1 student admin 300250 Nov 1 17:27 z.lso

This is the same... but on a school's g5 iMac running 10.4.8

..fascinating!

_________________
http://husc-sound.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brinxmat



Joined: Oct 24, 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I only have access to two macintoshes now, one of which runs a really bastardised version of 10.2, the other runs 10.4.x and belongs to the missus. I checked on the missus' machine, and /private contains just etc, var, tmp -- which is plain vanilla for OS X, as I said before.

Symlinks to /private will be created to enable things that are not available to the children of root (i.e. directories directly under /). /private is one of the four core directories for OS X; the properties of /private that its children inherit have to do with sharing/access (hence shared directories such as /var, /tmp and /etc being located here). I would therefore suspect any networking software you have installed -- specifically netboot (which might explain the school comps.).

As to the problems caused by symlink loops, at a guess, I would reckon on a small -- possibly increasing -- loss of disk space, but the major problem would occur with programmatically traversing directory trees, where entering into a loop would cause an non-ending loop for the software. A trip to the terminal with "ls -aFRL /private" might produce this. Software (typically backup software) that programmatically traverses directories expanding symlinks will throw a wobbly at symlink loops, either halting because of symlink-loop detection -- and thereby not backing up your precious files -- or by entering into a never-ending loop, and not actually backing up many of your precious files.

_________________
-- Say "&Eth;onne hit wæs hrenig weðer"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alexander



Joined: Apr 22, 2006
Posts: 374
Location: 's Hertogenbosch, NL
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 4

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you so much for all the help.. things are a lot clearer now, I have an external drive, where I'll back up my files.
I'll have to do all that after this semester, because my computer is daily used right now and I want to finish projects etcetera before taking care of this.

For now I'll keep my eyes on the status of my diskspace and keep studying those nice unix for dummies books at school!

Cheers!

_________________
http://husc-sound.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
deknow



Joined: Sep 15, 2004
Posts: 1307
Location: Leominster, MA (USA)
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

...years ago, on a windows 3.1pc, i had that happen....a loop of directory structure. my recolection is that it was bad ram...at least that was what was blamed, and i never had the problem again after replacing the ram.

deknow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: elektro80
Page 1 of 1 [17 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » OSX as a music workstation
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use