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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Looking for a few collaborators
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:28 am    Post subject: Looking for a few collaborators Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey DIYers!

I'm interested in starting an online collaboration with 2 or 3 other people. Maybe I should have posted this elsewhere, but I'm putting it here because I'm particularly interested in working with people who, like me, tend to get a bit lost in the building of equipment, and don't actually get around to writing much music.

I'd prefer one person from USA and one from UK and/or EU, to try and keep it as global as possible. (This choice of nationalities is in no way meant to be offensive to anyone hailing from Thailand, Russia, Africa, Sth America,....(you get the idea) these just seemed to be the predominant EM-SDIY members residences.)
You would need to be able to send and receive fairly large .wav or .mp3s and have some sort of software for composing (by composing I literally mean just adding something to a pre-existing wav.) No level of musicianship or musical theory applies. Any instrument accepted. (A mic and a headcold would do just fine, if that's what you're into.)

Like I said, the main idea is that it be something which motivates me (and you) to produce some interesting tracks, instead of just building instruments, effects, etc. If you're looking for a way of "getting your stuff heard" so you can move a step closer to becoming a "rock star", then you probably won't like the pace that I'm thinking of adopting.

I've got the mechanics of how it would work sorted out pretty well, and will go into deeper detail if and when anyone responds.

Post here, <S>or PM me</S>, if you're interested.

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Last edited by Uncle Krunkus on Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:55 pm; edited 3 times in total
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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sounds like a cool idea. i'm definitely interested, but i know a ton of others will be as well. how will you narrow it down?
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well,
I'm not sure,......
So, I suppose seeing as how you were the first reply, the collaboration starts right here and now, got any suggestions? Smile

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choklitlove



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

not really. haven't really thought about it yet. so it doesn't need to be all diy? other than that, you're the boss man! tell me what to do and i'll do it! i have a lot of different instruments and software and whatnot at my disposal. i'll attempt anything you can think of.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well,
I'll give it at least two days before I decide. Just to give everyone a bit of time to see this thread. If I start doing some tracks with a couple of people there's no reason why 3 or 4 others can't start their own "clan" in the same way. I think it's important to keep the groups to a maximum of 4, as the final product could become just too incoherent otherwise. Not to mention just plain hard work. Writing music with 3 others who are in the same room can be hard enough. Of course the final tracks could then be compiled into one "electro-music" project which featured tracks from a number of groups.

I'll start a list of interested people here, and edit it as we go.

AUS
Uncle Krunkus

USA
Choklitlove
Synthmonger

UK

EU
Coriolis

The way I want to do it is really the best part I think. It results in a completely shared project, I think you'll love it.
No, it doesn't need to be completely DIY. I just personally would like to do tracks with some people in the same kind of situation as me. People who like building instruments, effects, etc. who otherwise don't have a constant motivation to record their ideas. Something to sit me down in front of the computer and get a sense of "hey, that sounds really great, what if I added this bit that goes like?......"
I'll probably have a look at where everyone submits the most posts. That's just me. Others may form groups who hang out on the G2 forum, or on the composition forum, or with no specification at all! I actually wanted it to be very flexible and inclusive, in a communal kind of way.

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Last edited by Uncle Krunkus on Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Unca K - I sent you a pm...

C
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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm from the US and I'm down for some collaboration. Anyone up for a global-composition?
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's my response to Coriolis,
----------------------------------------
Hey Coriolis,
sounds like you're first cab off the rank in the ol' EU. Glad to have you on board! Well, on the list for now. Like I said, I'll be picking my bunch in a day or two. Gees,... it feels so powerful being an initiator! Laughing (I hardly ever initiate anything! Just ask my partner Felicity! Laughing )
My girls are 2yrs-8mths and 8mths, and I know exactly what you mean. I'm still struggling to get my head around how to be a parent the first time! Embarassed What you actually do with the 20mins of spare time you get each day gets a whole new level of importance hey? That's one of the reasons for this idea. I'm sure that left to my own motivation levels and time constraints, I may never record another piece of music again! Laughing

PS I'm going to CC this response to the thread, 'cos I think it would be good to document the process for other potential groups.
------------------------------------------------
I've decided it would be better not to PM for this reason.

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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okidoki by me!
I just find that making music on my own bores me a little - I need some inspiration!
Btw: I think this collaboration thing you've started, is going to spread like a wildfire - this place is perfect for it!

C

Oh, and here's a bit of music for you (and everyone else) to listen to:
http://www.christiancoriolis.dk/music.html

It's a couple years old, and some of it is unedited jamming with a few friends, but what the heck... Laughing
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just listened to Portahound. Man that is some seriously messed up stuff! I'm usually the one to inject a little weird into the mix! I think we're gonna get on just fine. Very Happy
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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy
Why thanks!
I listened to your track "Bliss" last night, which I liked very much!
Oh and the track "Clockwork Monk" sounded like something Baldur's Gate, or a similar game - very "adventure" I think. Cool

Going to check out some more of your stuff...

C
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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looking forward to hearing this Global adventure. Great idea Krunkus.
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I listened to your track "Bliss" last night, which I liked very much!
Oh and the track "Clockwork Monk" sounded like something Baldur's Gate, or a similar game - very "adventure" I think.


Like I mentioned elsewhere, I need to get out more.

Took the lunch hour to download the electro-music Krunkus collection - Bliss, Awakening, Clockwork Monk. All I can say is, Wow!!! Supremely excellent stuff, Unca. Didn't even know they were there.....

Cheers,
Scott
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks guys,
That was so long ago, I sometimes lose sight of what I've already done. If there was an easy way to upload it, you could all knock yourselves out with at least 7 LPs of stuff I've helped write, perform & produce, right back to '82. Probably best that you're spared from that experience! Laughing

Well Coriolis, this idea certainly has spread like wildfire. Rolling Eyes I've received 24 PMs in the last day and a half about it,........ NOT!!!! Laughing
Oh well, it looks like just Me, Coriolis, Choklitlove and we can't very well just set Synthmonger adrift in a sea of uncertainty, so he(?) makes four!
"That's the way, we, be, came, the, Bra, dy, Bunch! Do da, di di, da, daaa, da, daaaaaaahh!!!!"
Who knows, maybe, if we build it, they will come.

I thought of a great name for a group of DIY muso's last night: -
"A Murder of CROs" Laughing It means lots of different things at the same time!
Okay, enough of all that. My idea about how to go about it will follow soon. I'll CC it to PMs for you all. Just need to wake up with a bit of caffeine and stripboarding first. (Lots of people around here go surfboarding first thing in the morning! Laughing )

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd chime in for the UK position if I wasn't so busy at present Crying or Very sad

Quote:
I'm particularly interested in working with people who, like me, tend to get a bit lost in the building of equipment, and don't actually get around to writing much music.


Your Veroboard layouts are music to me Very Happy They're so colourful Cool

But I know what you mean. When I have time, I too get lost in building stuff (and most times, not actually finishing it Laughing ), and then decide that the actual making of the music is infinitely more important.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I must admit I was secretly hoping that you might be the UK correspondant Tom, but I completely understand the need to steer clear of starting something new when the list is already blowing in the wind. A part of me is already thinking "my God! what have you gotten yourself into now Laurel?" But the actual making of music is a great thing, and I know this will force me to be involved in something which will feed off and create it's own motivation.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay,
Here's how it works.

Each "group" has 2 to 4 members.

Each member: -
1. Records an idea which we call the "original"
2. They send a copy of the original to each of the other members.
3. Each of the other members works out another idea to incorporate into the original.
4. They send back 2 files. The new material, recorded by itself in the way it would appear in the piece.
5. The second file is the complete piece showing how their new idea fits in, and how the original would need to be edited to accommodate the new idea.
6. The originator uses the new material to update the master version of the track.

Notes:
1. The original could be anything, from a track which is almost finished, right through to a very basic rhythm idea which is tapped into a mic, badly, to a drone note which goes on for half an hour, etc.
2. There's no need to send a perfect copy to the other members. The final track will ultimately be "constructed" by the originator. A low bitrate mp3 would be fine. It just has to inspire a response.
3. Here's where the other members get the chance to play with ideas. Change the structure, tempo, extend the track, add completely new parts.
4. This file needs to be good quality. The originator will use this track in the final product. If the strings you've come up with are supposed to be EQ'd severely, include that in this file.
5. This one doesn't. It just shows the originator how to incorporate the idea. This could even be a txt file which describes how, if that's possible.
6. Each initiator ultimately has the final say on exactly how the other members ideas will be incorporated. For example two members may come up with conflicting structure changes, or a cymbal may sound "out of place". The originator acts as the "producer" of the track and decides which way to go. I think it's important that something of the new ideas needs to be used though. Otherwise people will be hurt when their hard work doesn't end up in the final mix.

Does all that make sense? I hope it doesn't sound pedantic or contrived. I know it may seem like there is an extra step in there which is not necessary, but it allows a greater freedom on both sides to mould the track. By leaving the final say with the initiator (don't forget, everyone is an initiator) we all get the chance to be responsible for an end product, and aspects of all the end products.

Oh well, let me know what you think.

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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like it!
I was just thinking about how it might be a good idea to have the right to veto someone's changes to one's own idea, but I believe you've included that right, by putting the ultimate decision in the hand of the Initiator.

Perhaps you've already answered my next question as well, which is; who goes first? I guess we all do? I know I have plenty of ideas to put forth.

Maybe we should get Choklitlove and synthmonger to actually confirm whether they're in on this? How about it, people? Once we know that, we can start discussing how to share files, which file formats to use (may I suggest we stick only a few? 2-3?), and so on.

Also, if any one of us wants to release some of this collab-music (getting ahead of myself - I know Wink ), how to do that?

If you haven't guessed, I'm all for a bit of pedantery - when it comes to establishing rules for something like this. That way we can all concentrate on the music.

Hurrah! This is going to be fun! Very Happy

C
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah,
that's the bit I like the best. We all have the same amount of power & responsibility.

That's the other great thing, we're not left waiting for the one track to "do the rounds". Once everyone has put in their initial idea, there will be plenty to keep us all as busy as we want. If you put one in and you haven't heard back, you can start getting the next one ready.

I'll CC a PM to them, just in case they've taken their eye off the ball for a day or three. I don't think everyone checks the net everyday like we do! Laughing

File formats, personally, I like 44100Hz-16bit.wav for anything that matters, and an .mp3 with a bitrate of about 120 for things that don't. I know they aren't the best option, but most people have software for manipulating them or converting them to something else. I'm not that worried about quality really, and various artifacts due to different formats being bounced around could be part of our signature. I just care that it needs to be as easy as possible. Remember, if you want to compile/edit using Cubase, and me using Cakewalk, and Choklitlov using Fruityloops, that's perfectly okay. It's just inserting the new idea which matters.

As far as releasing is concerned, dunno. Maybe we could get someone else here at EM to master the collection and release it here? We'll worry about that later I s'pose.

I agree, it's good to know what's going on, and have some kind of "charter" develop as you go. Most of the catastrophic arguments I've experienced in past bands have been because someone assumed something which the others hadn't even thought about.

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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree with you on the file formats. Those should useable by most people.
Also, 44.1Khz / 16 bit is certainly good enough, I think. A good recording matters more anyway.

C
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