electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  mosc Chez mosc - tonight, Twyndyllyngs live
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Bugs
noises on G2X out with usb cable connected
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 5 [106 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
Author Message
and70it



Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 59
Location: italy
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:11 am    Post subject:  noises on G2X out with usb cable connected Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

my g2x make noise on out.
This is my configuration:
G2x connected via usb with the usb input un the keyboard of my G4;
the G2x audio out are connected via 2 mono jack with the audio input (3_4) of my digi 001;
pro tolls is active with 1 audio track in rec mode (input 3_4 and output 1_2);
so is the noise very loud, but if i disconnect the usb cable the noise stops
it.
Is it normal?
thanx
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17550
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't think this is normal but I've heard of other people having similar problems. A solution seems to use a USB cable with the ground (Earth) lifted.
_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
and70it



Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 59
Location: italy
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:18 am    Post subject: usb cable Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanx,
i don't use the original clavia usb cable, i try with this
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17550
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know if the Clavia-supplied cable is ungrounded or not. You may want to doctor up your own cable if that doesn't work. This may have absolutely nothing to do with your problem as I have no first-hand experience with USB grounding problems.

Here's some information that may be of value to you.

http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb2.htm

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
deknow



Joined: Sep 15, 2004
Posts: 1307
Location: Leominster, MA (USA)
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have this isssue with the engine. if i ground lift the power cord on my laptop, things greatly improve. i don't perform or record with the computer attached to the g2.

deknow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17550
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

deknow wrote:
i don't perform or record with the computer attached to the g2.


That's a good solution if you don't need to record the G2. Laughing

I lift the grounds on every piece of audio equipment I have. Laptops are notorious for this. I don't bother with ground lifter adapters, I just cut the grounds of with a good set of diag cutters. (This is just my opinion, not official editorial comment).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
deknow



Joined: Sep 15, 2004
Posts: 1307
Location: Leominster, MA (USA)
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
That's a good solution if you don't need to record the G2.


...i record the g2 all the time, i just make sure everything is setup before hand so i don't need the computer. not having a computer onstage is one of my requirements (for me), and i'm almost always using it with the flute. i can imagine that with a crazy interactive noodle one might really need the editor open to see what is going on.

deknow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17550
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, that means you record with something other than the computer. I just assumed you were using the computer. doh
_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
deknow



Joined: Sep 15, 2004
Posts: 1307
Location: Leominster, MA (USA)
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh...yeah,

for a while, i've been doing 2 track recordings on minidisc...but i've recently gone back to using my akai dps16 as a mixer live so that i can capture individual tracks live. the dps also has a really great sounding multiband compressor that i use for mastering. i can record 10 tracks at a time (including the digital ins for the repeater), and i can send midi clock from the dps, so when i edit i can do it by bar/beat/tick rather than in minutes and seconds Smile. the dps records uncompresed..i generally use it in cd quality, but it does much higher than that.

when we did the nye broadcast, i did need to use the computer (obviously), and simply ground lifted the prong. i probably would just cut the ground off the computer cord, but when i go into coporate/hospital environments for my day job, i don't want to have any modified equipment in case something unrelated has a problem.

deknow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17550
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

deknow wrote:
but when i go into coporate/hospital environments for my day job, i don't want to have any modified equipment in case something unrelated has a problem.

Yes, you don't want to be blamed for the death of the guy they just brought in with multiple gunshot wounds, or for the company stock dropping 50%. Mad

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
deknow



Joined: Sep 15, 2004
Posts: 1307
Location: Leominster, MA (USA)
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

...probably more likely is a router going kaput on it's own, and the it department sees i was pluged into it without a ground (not that the ground on the computer is actually attached to that ground)....a convient way to pass the blame.

deknow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
nemystic



Joined: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 8
Location: france

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I had the same problem with my G2X.

I have solved the problem with the use of a special USB cable, I use the USB cable of my Emagic EMI 2/6 sound card plugged on the G2X, it seems this cable have a special Braid and foil Shield and also another system for reducing noise.

For my USB sound card, I have bought another USB cable : a special Belkin Gold platin 24k with a special Braid and foil Shield.

Now everythings are OK, no noise on the recorded tracks with a 24 bit/ 96 khz quality.

Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1049
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject:  USB More noise issues
Subject description: Random computer intereference with USB cable connected.
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am getting relatively significant pops clicks and audio artifacts (roughly -60dB) when the G2's usb cable is connected to my pc, If i unplug it the noise floor on the outputs falls away significantly.

You mention something about ground lifting a usb cable how is this done?

The noise is not ground hum but definite pc communication interference, cable unplugged, noises gone. I am using the supplied Nord cable, would a USB port/breakout box (such as a USB extension lead) away from the pc help?

I have a G2 engine so I really need to keep it plugged in for editing.

_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
deknow



Joined: Sep 15, 2004
Posts: 1307
Location: Leominster, MA (USA)
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

are you using a laptop or desktop? if laptop, does the powercord have 3 prongs or 2 (is it grounded)?

deknow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
nemystic



Joined: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 8
Location: france

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, When I was using a PCI sound card directly plugged in the computer or when I was using the usb sound card (emagic A26), I had noise with some low quality usb cable, and also when there was no cable plugged !
Now I use an audio interface linked with a firewire cable (MOTU UltraLite), and I haven't any noise when I listen or when I record !!

Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1049
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a desktop n don't really fancy unhooking the earth from the plug on it, the electricity in my flat can be a little wonky so am worried i might blow myself up, or worse still my kit, if I did that. Smile

I have just done some measurements on the noise, I would say roughly speaking it is around the (-65 to -75 mark) when the synth is run at unity thru my desk, so it is not horrendous, i just know it can do better (such as when the USB is unplugged) which is what makes it annoying.

Plus as discussed elsewhere it doesn't have the hottest output signal level (as per the fact it is digital, so a clean as possible output is essential).

Interestingly I bought a new firewire cable for my soundcard (ozonic keyboard) and that seemed to reduce the noise level a little, to where it is now from about -60 to -70. So I am almost convinced it is communication signal interference.

_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
deknow



Joined: Sep 15, 2004
Posts: 1307
Location: Leominster, MA (USA)
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if it were me, i'd try to unhook the earth from the computer (at least for one bootup to see if it helps). if you really don't want to do that (and i don't really want to get into an argument about whether it's smart or not), i would try to ground directly any signal ground from the pc (any shield from any connector) to a good earth (and perhaps try grounding the chassis of the pc as well...but try the signal ground first). my recolection is that the g2 case is isolated, so i don't think grounding the g2 chassis will do anything, but you could try grounding a signal ground.

the problem here is that despite all the grounding rules that everyone else in the world tried to adhere to (these are "physics rules", not arbitrary ones), the computer industry has not done this, and interfacing a computer to an audio system is always a pain in the ass. doing so while feeling safe is even harder!

deknow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17550
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

To add gasoline to the fire, or more accurately to try to be helpful, see this topic I just posted.

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-16104.html

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1049
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, cheers for your help, altho i don't really know what u mean when u say :

"i would try to ground directly any signal ground from the pc (any shield from any connector) to a good earth " or "could try grounding a signal ground."

electronics is not my speciality . Sad I live in a rented flat, so making alterations to the electrics would probably be frowned upon if that is what u r getting at.?

U might think I am nuts but I think i am gonna try n get hold of a better quality (n better screened) usb cable first, n see what that does.

RE Second paragraph, don't i know about it. Smile

RE Mosc: What i am going to do is buy another usb cable, if it doesn't fix the problem, i will try cutting it up as u described n then see, at least that way, if muck it up (don't even have wire clippers, so scissors it is) I still have a working cable left over. Smile

_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17550
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A "good earth" is something you won't find in your rental apartment. Radio hams and such drive long copper rods into the ground and use very heavy cables to get a "good earth" The best you could find would be a cold water pipe, but most probably in any building less than 30 years old, that will be made of PVC and not a good conductor.

Good luck with your hunt for a better USB cable, and try the ground lifter plug on your computer. If it kills you, please let us know so we can warn other people. Laughing (oooh, that's a sick joke)

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1049
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Right, found an old usb cable, cut it up as described, seems to be losing connection with the nord a little too often but the noise has gone. hmm...

I'll see how i get on, suspect i will be buying another usb lead to cut up.

cheers all.

Ross (deceased)

_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17550
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

iPassenger wrote:
(deceased)


OMG, what have I done? Shocked

Warning to youngsters that try this at home - be careful with those wire strippers, clippers and blades.

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1049
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well i can't seem to get it to maintain contact with my pc via usb. what have i done wrong? Perhaps cuttting the usb cables does not answer this puzzle, it will work for a bit n then cuts out, "lost contact via usb", i did cut both the live n the earth. I even reinstalled to see if that had upset it.
_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21969
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Never go in search of a "better ground" without you knowing completely what you are doing, why you are doing it and what is really going on.

Re the USB ground thingie, sometimes it is easier and more controllable to disconnect the ground on the device side of and not in the actual cable. I don´t have a G2 so I have no way of checking, but it might be more productive to disconnect USB grnd inside the G2. On the other hand, it might be more interesting to disconnect shield first.

It could be as easy as one snip on the circuitboard somewhere.
Anyone out there with a service manual for the G2? A complete circuit diagram? Anyone?

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21969
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:


OMG, what have I done? Shocked





Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 5 [106 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Bugs
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
mps board

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use