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 Forum index » Artists » Stein Grebstad
The Sinking of the 'Scharnhorst'
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:31 am    Post subject: The Sinking of the 'Scharnhorst' Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/scharnhorst_01.shtml

http://www.scharnhorst-class.dk/scharnhorst/gallery/gallscharnsurvivors.html



Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

( December 26, 1943 )


The 32,700 ton German battleship, commanded by Admiral Erich Bey, was attacked by the British battleship Duke of York and destroyers Savage and Saumarez while attempting to intercept an Allied convoy sailing to the port of Murmansk in Russia. Damaged by the 14-inch shells from the Duke of York and hit by torpedoes from the British and Norwegian destroyers, she was then attacked by the cruisers Jamaica, Belfast and Norfolk. After a battle lasting thirty-six minutes, the mighty ship rolled over and sank bows first at 1945hrs about 75 miles off the North Cape, the northernmost point in Europe. The 36 survivors of the 1,969 crew were picked up from the sea....1,933 men had died. (all of the Scharnhorst’s 51 officers were lost) Altogether a total of fifty-five torpedoes were fired at the Scharnhorst, but only 11 struck the ship. Losses from the British ships were eighteen killed and sixteen wounded. The battle of North Cape was the last conflict between British and German capital ships in World War II. The wreck of Scharnhorst was found by a Norwegian team in September 2000. It lies just under 1,000 feet of water.

This piece was originally written in 1987. The recording was done over the last few weeks and concluded on 03-21-2004. It is a part of the Utmost Savagery series.

It has been calculated that the 32,000 ton Scharnhorst hit the seabed at 30 km/hour.


- link removed

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Last edited by elektro80 on Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great piece, Stein. Excellent. In a style unlike any I've heard you do before.

Profoundly moving. I never thought I would be moved by a piece about a Nazi war ship, but I am by this one. When listening to this music, I get a sense tragic heroism and waste.

Bravo! well-done thumb up
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, war is about real people dying for real, so I just thought I should approach the subject manner in an honest way. THX for the kind words. Hopefully I will have the full series recorded soon.
I am not sure about the style of this one being very different from what I usually do, but then I most probably hear what I do in a different way than others will. This one is not quite like of my late 70s sequencer oriented material, but in essence this one is not that far from stuff like Assault, I am Metal, Utmost Savagery, The Burning of Tokyo and the rest. The main difference here is probably that it was written in the style of a full modern electro-acoustic orchestra, which of course is a completely different thing than ensemble work. When I say electro-acoustic orchestra I am not thinking of a symphonic orchestra, that is of course something else altogether. Hmm.. well.. what I guess I mean is that the layering of the voices and the expressiveness of the voices follow the grand orchestral tradition.. but the very instrumentation is "modern". hopefully the writing is modern too, but I cannot really say for sure.

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Mohoyoho



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I find this piece very appealing. There's a very dark mood here, and I can picture the ship on a foggy sea. I love the chorus which gives the piece a forboding feel. Outstanding.
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seraph
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am listening to this piece: I would call it underworld or even better underwater music: I see bubbles of air going up, the ship going down, dead bodies floating around, the sun is seen from below the water.
It's great! Excellent Stein, congratulations well done welcome thumb up

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

THX guys.
Yes, it seems like you are kinda getting some of the essence of what I intended to put in here. I did in fact try to incorporate some experiences from sailors experiencing "almost drowning.." being dragged down by the ship etc. This is of course very subjective experiences but it seems like some kind of essence can be conveyed in the music. On the other hand, the title and the presentation might have something to with this too. Any thoughts on this? What if I had called this "happy days Are here Again" and splattered the initial post with pix of Fred Astaire and the lot?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
What if I had called this "happy days Are here Again" and splattered the initial post with pix of Fred Astaire and the lot?

You have a point that the pic and the description influence the perception of the music. Perhaps there are some people out there on the bell-shaped curve that would think it was happy and upbeat if you told them it was.

Keep the faith. You write music about things (events, other art, literature, etc.) and the music is connected to them. It enhances the experience. I firmly believe in telling the audience exactly what is behind every piece of music. The more informed they are, the better their experience.

That said, I think this piece would be moving without the description. It sets a mood all by itself.

My first instinct when I see a picture of Nazi military aparatus is one of revulsion. You could just as easilly written music to "dance on their graves" and that would have been appropriate. But your music is to a higher purpose. You don't say what the purpose is, you provide "just the facts".
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Mohoyoho



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
On the other hand, the title and the presentation might have something to with this too. Any thoughts on this? What if I had called this "happy days Are here Again" and splattered the initial post with pix of Fred Astaire and the lot?


This is definitely a somber piece with some watery sounds to it. The title certainly helps with more specific imagery, but I would never think of this as a happy tune.

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themoors



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

At the begining i get the feeling of twisting, rupturing metal... I liked it and was moved by it..

As far as how you present it go's ,well thats just down to your judgement.. By giving it the title " The Sinking of the 'Scharnhorst'" and putting up a pic of a dirty great battleship, you are documenting the actual event... if you had named the track "water" for instance i would be thinking "mmm nice amibent aquatic track" .. but by giving it s title ect it allows me to hear a lot more in the music..hope that makes sense... anyway good stuff.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.bismarck-class.dk/shipmodels/german_models/scharnhorstehrenstrasser.html
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Michael Chocholak



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great piece! Submerged icon of death at peace. Sweeping shafts of light and shadow. Spectral to ethereal. Transcendant climax. It works with or without the programmic context. My def fav of all your work. I hope you do more work in this vein. Excellent. thumright salut
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not happy or sad. The background you gave it certainly makes it more poignant. But if you had said nothing, I would still says it's a great piece of sonic sculpture. Gracefully ambient throughout, but also with an enigmatic uplifting quality. Like I said, it works for me either way. Cool
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Kinetic P.M.



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

listening to this now.....

I love the detailed historic snapshot about the song Laughing

This one has some nice impeding underwater sounds throughout it .It really gives the sense of being lost and the feeling doom. One thing i was hoping to hear from this piece after reading the historic bit was the intensity of war ..the whistle of a shell right before it hits and you making all sorts of promises to any higher being that it won't hit you.

Just some thoughts.

P.S. What kind of equipment do you use for your work???

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paul e.



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i sent you a telepathic message regarding this track


excellent..now if you could just clear all the copyrights and get that stuff on a DVD with the music...........

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/shipmodels/german_models/scharnhorstehrenstrasser.html



Wow.. a model?! Incredibly detailed!
Trivia:
The Scharnhorst together with the Gneisenau managed to takeout the british carrier Glorious and two destroyers on the 8th of june 1940.
The carrier Glorious being hit by large shells from the Scharnhorst
. When all hope was lost for the Glorious, the carrier tried to ram Scarnhorst. This did not work out and more than 1500 british seamen died when the carrier sunk. The battle did in fact prevent Scharnhorst and Gneisenau to discover the almost unprotected convoy of ships carrying allied troops out of Norway.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kinetic P.M. wrote:
listening to this now.....

I love the detailed historic snapshot about the song Laughing

This one has some nice impeding underwater sounds throughout it .It really gives the sense of being lost and the feeling doom. One thing i was hoping to hear from this piece after reading the historic bit was the intensity of war ..the whistle of a shell right before it hits and you making all sorts of promises to any higher being that it won't hit you.

Just some thoughts.

P.S. What kind of equipment do you use for your work???


In pieces like this one I usually chose to not use specific audio events which migh make the music into a soundtrack.. but well.. I have also actually used such noises. I have a piece or two using actual field recordings and explosions and stuff. Hmm.. I have one song where you kinda hear the hull being hit by shrapnel etc.. and listener is "inside" the hull. I am told that piece is a painful experience when played loud.
In this instance and in the case of Assault I decided to not use any real sounds like explosions and whatever.. partly because in situations like these you would actually not be able to hear much anyway.. the sounds would be too loud in order to register as proper sound events.

Equipment? Hmm.. a little bit of this and that I guess.
Some of the multitrack voices here comes from a DAT transfer from an old half inch 8 track tape.
I imagine you can hear:
A lPPG Wave 2.3 with the Waveterm. ( from the old multitrack tape transfers to DAT )
Waldorf PPG
Octave Instruments CAT 2
Korg DW 8000
Korg MS 20
A "new" minimoog and Taurus.
A virtual Moog modular
A Chappel piano
Halion 1
a virtual CS 80
two tandberg reel to reel decks used for looping signals from synths and sending the noises into the external input of the MS 20.. this is part of one pretty extensive patch.
An Ibanez electric guitar and that red pod thingie
Various mics from Shure and Røde..
and the MOTU 828 and the M-Audio Firewire 410.
..and a G4 dual 1.25 and one G4 dual 500mhz
and lotsa compressors and filters and stuff.
Some of the bassy noises comes from processing of some old recordings I did using hydrophones and two portable reel to reel recorders. The noises are in fact the sounds from big ships in the inner part of the Oslo fjord and I had the hydrophones on two sailboats approx. 600 meters apart. I tried to sync the tapes on an editing table after transferring the audio to Agfa perfotape. I did of course not quite succeed but the resuilt is pleasing anyway.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have posted a new mix of this one at http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-2248.html
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have removed the link to the music file.
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