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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Midi-Latency
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mother misty



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:04 am    Post subject: Midi-Latency Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all,

I've been experimenting with G2-sequencers to control external gear lately.
But everytime I've have a big latency when I try to send midi-notes to
external gear.

In this particular case I've tried a simple event sequencer connected
to a midi note send module to trigger samples on a kaosspad 3.
The kaoss pad is connected directly to the G2 with a midi cable
and still I've a huge latency. Is this normal?
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The total transmission time of a three byte note on message is about 1ms. The receiving device then needs a little time to process, then make the sound. What sort of delay are we talking about?
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dasz



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've noticed latency when controlling my dave smith evolver (cutoff) with g2 envelopes which connect to cc send. I think the problem is the dave smith's reaction time to control changes.

I'll look into this (sending midi notes to external stuff) when I get home.
/Dasz

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When sending continuously changing data it's easy to exceed the MIDI bandwidth. This can be avoided for example by inserting a s&h triggered from an LFO just before the blue input of the CC send module. Set the LFO to a speed that has to be a compromise between hearing steps and hearing latency.
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dasz



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah ... i was thinking of this too. i need to spend more time at home than on the road ...

/Dasz

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dasz



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you know, we should really use avatars based in MRI scans of our brains with some visualization which represents how much overlap we have between each other ...

ok -- just going on a silly tangent here Wink
/Dasz

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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mother, I've done lots of MIDI sequence generation for external synth voices and haven't seen any objectionable latencies. I could see that some rapidly changing CCs would choke the MIDI stream. In cases where that is necessary, I try to chop the signal with the slowest clock rate I can get away with.

But you say it's MIDI Notes.

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mother misty



Joined: May 13, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the replys guys!
Well, the latency is pretty big (check the attached MP3 for an example,
the kick is a machinedrum, the dub skank a kaoss pad 3.
The dub skank is placed on the beat but it doesn't sound like that...)
I've attached the patch aswell. Any idea's?



[Blue Hell: there is a better version of the patch here]


Latency.mp3
 Description:
audio example

Download
 Filename:  Latency.mp3
 Filesize:  196.85 KB
 Downloaded:  377 Time(s)


KP3Seq.pch2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  KP3Seq.pch2
 Filesize:  1.46 KB
 Downloaded:  800 Time(s)

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mother misty wrote:
I've attached the patch aswell. Any idea's?


Nothing wrong with the patch ... got a MIDI loop somewhere maybe ?

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh wait, the seq mod will give notes (trigs) at ranndom times I guess. Could that be it ?
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mother misty



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
mother misty wrote:
I've attached the patch aswell. Any idea's?


Nothing wrong with the patch ... got a MIDI loop somewhere maybe ?


Nope, the midi out from the G2 goes directly to the KP3 midi in.
The KP3 midi out is not connected.
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mother misty



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Oh wait, the seq mod will give notes (trigs) at ranndom times I guess. Could that be it ?


hmm, what do you mean with notes at random times?
(there's a RND trigger in the patch, but this shouldn't do more than let the trigger trough or not)
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mother misty wrote:
Blue Hell wrote:
Oh wait, the seq mod will give notes (trigs) at ranndom times I guess. Could that be it ?


hmm, what do you mean with notes at random times?
(there's a RND trigger in the patch, but this shouldn't do more than let the trigger trough or not)


Hmm in the patch as you sent it does nothing, but when you use that switch mechanism by opening the mod pot in the switcher it might switch off from a note that is off to a note that is on (in the other event qequence) and this will happen at a random moment, unsynced to the beat.

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3phase



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I havent had a look to the patch...it sounds way to early to me.
I think you have to delay the G2 triggers...

what bluehell said might sounds like more weard patching...maybe your sequencers trigger on the falling edge of the pulse making them way off...

its defenetly not so much midilatency in the nord...
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dasz



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

try taking out the rnd module -- is this still happening then?? I'd patch a 2 way switch to take the signal directly to the note out or through the rnd instead ...

/Dasz

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mother misty



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dasz wrote:
try taking out the rnd module -- is this still happening then?? I'd patch a 2 way switch to take the signal directly to the note out or through the rnd instead ...

/Dasz


Even if I connect the sequencer directly to a midi note send module, the timing still isn't tight Sad
Have you tried to sequence external gear with the G2 dasz?
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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I tried your patch and it plays one note on my Kurzweil PC2x synced perfectly to the light on the sequencer. I'm not sure what your problem is so I modified your patch to play an internal perc osc in sync with the external synth. In my setup, they play consistently at the same time.


mother-latent.pch2
 Description:
A test patch for latency when driving an external sequencer with MIDI

Download
 Filename:  mother-latent.pch2
 Filesize:  1.61 KB
 Downloaded:  1127 Time(s)


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mother misty



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks mosc, I'll have a look at your patch tonight.
One more question, how is your kurzweill connected,
with a midi cable directly from the G2 or not?
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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mother misty wrote:
One more question, how is your kurzweill connected,
with a midi cable directly from the G2 or not?


I go though this ancient beast called a Unitor8. Essentially it is an 8 in by 8 out MIDI router connected to the computer with a RS232 cable. The way I use it is pretty lame. I route everything into the computer and do the routing with MIDIOX. The Unitor8 has its own software that can do the routing internally, but I like the MIDIOX software better and haven't noticed any objectionable latency.

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mother misty



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Damn...
The starting points of my samples in my kaoss pad3 are a bit fucked up,
that's why everything sounds out of sync, I feel so stupid!! Embarassed Embarassed
I've changed the samples and it works fine now.

Thanks for your time anyway guys, this G2>KP3 combo is serious fun and gives alot of new options! Very Happy
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy

At least you found it.

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grimley



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mother misty wrote:
this G2>KP3 combo is serious fun and gives alot of new options! Very Happy


Couldn't agree more ... I recently upgraded from a KP2 and I'm addicted. I also love using the KP3 as a controller for the G2, especially the pad mode where you have 4 CCs.
-grimley
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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mother misty wrote:
Damn...
The starting points of my samples in my kaoss pad3 are a bit fucked up,
that's why everything sounds out of sync, I feel so stupid!! Embarassed Embarassed
I've changed the samples and it works fine now.

Thanks for your time anyway guys, this G2>KP3 combo is serious fun and gives alot of new options! Very Happy


Doh! how annoying.

It's like when you repatch yr studio to find out why a drum machine isn't producing audio, only to find that you have the channel muted.

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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

grimley wrote:
mother misty wrote:
this G2>KP3 combo is serious fun and gives alot of new options! Very Happy


Couldn't agree more ... I recently upgraded from a KP2 and I'm addicted. I also love using the KP3 as a controller for the G2, especially the pad mode where you have 4 CCs.
-grimley


Our guitarist introduced his KP3 to us last weekend and we all had a hilarious good time sampling our voices and mucking with the samples.

How is the MIDI CC resolution on the Kaoss pads? Is both the LSB and MSB of the CC message supported?
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mother misty



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

grimley wrote:
mother misty wrote:
this G2>KP3 combo is serious fun and gives alot of new options! Very Happy


Couldn't agree more ... I recently upgraded from a KP2 and I'm addicted. I also love using the KP3 as a controller for the G2, especially the pad mode where you have 4 CCs.
-grimley


I've always wanted a joystick on my G2 but your solution sounds like a very good alternative! Smile
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