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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Soft synths
Arturia Moog Modular V
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 2:38 pm    Post subject: Arturia Moog Modular V Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Arturia Moog Modular V Softsynth
I downloaded the Arturia Moog Modular V software synthesizer from the Arturia.com site today. This is a software simulation of the legendary Moog Modular system. Since I am the proud owner of one of the original Moog Modular systems, I was very excited. Unfortunately, I found the Arturia software underwhelming.

After you download the 5.87 MB file from the arturia.com site, installation is very simple and went flawlessly. You can choose to install it as standalone, or integrated with VST, DXI, or ASIO. You can set the latency with a simple adjustment. Naturally, I set it to zero, but that didn't work. I had to set it up to 10 ms before I could get a good sound out of the unit. That is, it says 10 ms, but it's much more than that.

My PC is Windows ME with 512 MB Ram and a 1.8 GHz processor. Not the world's fastest machine, but still pretty reasonable.

Closeup of Arturia Moog Modules
The demo has certain features disabled; the most important one being that you can't save and restore presets. Perhaps worse it that there is an intermittent burst of white noise in the audio whenever you play anything, so the demo is practically useless for musical purposes. Still, I could kick the tires and try it out.

The screen comes up with what to most people will look exactly like a Moog Modular synthesizer. But it is not exact, not an authentic replica. There are many of the original modules, but many are quite different from the original Moog product. Some modules are closer than others. The modules don't have the old Moog numbers, but clearly the oscillators are pretty much based on the 921B. Unfortunately the inputs and outputs aren't fully labeled (some have labels and some don't) which is really a pain. I've had a Moog for 30 years and trying to play the Arturia proved to me in a minute that labels on I/O's are critically needed. The mixers are quite different from the original Moog, as are the VCAs, and the filters. There are perhaps some improvements. For example, the fixed filter bank has a Q control for each band, while the original Moog didn't have that.

You hook the modules together with virtual patch cords, which work pretty well, much like the Nord Modular synthesizer. You can click from an output jack to an input and the cord goes into place as you would expect. You turn the knobs by clicking on them with the mouse and moving the cursor up or down.

There is latency with everything you do, from turning knobs, to pushing virtual buttons, to playing midi notes. There is also a tremendous amount of staircasing when you turn the frequency control knob on an oscillator; really ugly! This is possibly because I'm using a professional quality audio card and and not a consumer PC sound card. I use the Yamaha DSP Factory. Perhaps I should down grade my system for a DXI compatible card with the hope that this software works better with the video game sound interface.

My intent was to really test this software out and give a complete analysis of every module. Yet, after playing with this beast for about 1/2 hour, I gave up. The latency was the biggest single problem. But it wasn't the only problem. The Arturia is very much like the original Moog in that it has a fixed layout. You can't add and remove modules (oscillators, filters and such) as you need them as you create a patch. You are given a fixed palate of modules, in a fixed layout.

As a very experienced Moog Modular player and a true lover of analog synthesis, I think the Arturia is almost totally useless as a musical instrument. It might have some value in teaching analog synthesis concepts, but the Nord would be far superior.

What would be really cool is if the Arturia people would work with the Clavia people so this product could drive the Nord Modular hardware. I own the Nord Modular. It is everything the Moog Modular ever dreamed of being and much more. Even if the Arturia had zero latency, I would still not like this program. The modules, although they look very cool, are really primitive compared to those offered by the Nord Modular. To take just two examples, there aren't attenuators on every control input, and many functions (like filter regeneration) aren't even voltage controlled. That's exactly the way the Moog Modular was, but those are glaring limitations. It makes no sense to replicate a synthesizer design that was based on the limitations of hardware design 30 years ago. In those days, a signal attenuator was expensive; it took a potentiometer (pot) and a jack, and it took up valuable and expensive panel space.

I read on the Arturia web site that this product was the effort of one year of research and development. I hate to hear it for it seems a waste of time and talent. As a Moog Modular lover, I feel really badly that I don't have much good to say about this effort. If your interested in analog synthesis, save your pennies and get a Nord Modular or Nord Micromodular. Better yet, wait for the next generation G2, but that's another story.


moog.wma
 Description:
Moog Modular sawtooth oscillator with sweeping low pass filter

Download
 Filename:  moog.wma
 Filesize:  630.25 KB
 Downloaded:  419 Time(s)


nord.wma
 Description:
Nord Modular sawtooth oscillator with sweeping low pass filter

Download
 Filename:  nord.wma
 Filesize:  938.27 KB
 Downloaded:  383 Time(s)


arturia.wma
 Description:
Arturia Modular sawtooth oscillator with sweeping low pass filter

Download
 Filename:  arturia.wma
 Filesize:  727.06 KB
 Downloaded:  395 Time(s)


Last edited by mosc on Sun Aug 17, 2003 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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EdwardMGoldberg



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Howard,

Could we hear some samples from your Moog?

It would be great to have you talk us through what
this hardware does. As you know I have seen and
played your system. But I bet that others will enjoy
a peek (and hear) at your studio.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have received quite a few comments off of the forum about my review. All summed up, people a want to know about the sound of the Arturia vs. the Moog Modular and the Nord Modular.

In the noble cause of science and art, I went out and bought a DXI soundcard, Soundblaster Live 5.1, and installed it in my PC. That made the latency go way down, but not completely away. The Arturia is responsive enough to make drones and some sounds, but as a keyboard player I'd have to say it that there is too much latency for serious performance.

The sound of the Arturia is not bad, but it is nowhere like the Moog. I noticed this immediately when trying to record comparisons. My original plan was to record a sweeping low pass filter on a chord of three sawtooth waves. The Arturia sawtooth sound very muted compared to the Moog. I patched around for nearly an hour trying to get around this but, that's unfortunately the case. Three saws really sound nothing like three Moog saws, so I decided to use just one sawtooth oscillator with a low pass filter.

I did three tests, Arturia Moog Modular V, Real Moog Modular, and Nord Modular, which are attached to this posting as wma files (128 kbs). The oscillators were tuned to the same note and the LPF was seeped by hand with different amounts of regeneration. These test are not meant as exactly matched, but they are close enough to give you an idea as to what these synthesizers sound like.

The Arturia sounds quite noisy. Remember this is the demo version and there are occasional bursts of white noise injected. There are lots of clicks and pops too. I'd give Arturia the benefit of the doubt that these are artifacts of the demo noise. The staircaseing is probably not demo related IMO.

In performing these tests, I found that the Arturia really has quite a few major differences from the original Moog Modulars. The most annoying, and limiting, to me is that the oscillator controller knobs are not continuous. When the switch is set to semitones, the oscillator pitch jumps discreetly from semitone to semitone, when the "analog" knob is turned. In the octave position, the pitch jumps by discrete octaves. Of course, on the Moog the pitch change is continuous. Same with the Nord Modular.

My impression is that the Arturia doesn't sound very good compared to either the Moog Modular of the Nord Modular. Listen to the samples included yourself. In my opinion there is no comparison. The Moog is very smooth sounding, and smooth tuning (response to controller). The Artuira isn't smooth period. The Nord sounds great, but there is staircaseing in some cases. I've found you can almost always patch the Nord to get around staircaseing, but it can take a bit of time.

I've often said that if I could have only one, the Nord or the Moog Modular, I'd take the Nord, because it is tremendously more powerful with patching and polyphony. That said, after sending a few hours this afternoon comparing the two, I've decided that for simple patches, the Moog definitely is something special. I'm going to use it more for recordings, but it ain't too good for taking on the road.

Comments much appreciated.

Note (Aug 17, 2003): The wma files attached were lost on the server during the crash of May 11, 2003 Sad
I just restored them Smile

If anyone is interested, I'm willing to upload them again, in MP3 format. A few people had difficulty playing the WMA files. Just post a reply to this topic with that request and I'll do it.



nord.mp3
 Description:
Nord Modular sawtooth oscillator with sweeping low pass filter.

Download
 Filename:  nord.mp3
 Filesize:  618.77 KB
 Downloaded:  1138 Time(s)


moog.mp3
 Description:
Moog Modular sawtooth oscillator with sweeping low pass filter

Download
 Filename:  moog.mp3
 Filesize:  1007.75 KB
 Downloaded:  1183 Time(s)


arturia.mp3
 Description:
Arturia Moog Modular software synthesizer sawtooth oscillator with sweeping low pass filter.

Download
 Filename:  arturia.mp3
 Filesize:  715.92 KB
 Downloaded:  1137 Time(s)


Last edited by mosc on Sun Aug 17, 2003 4:10 pm; edited 3 times in total
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There is an update for the Arturia Moog which improves performance on the PC platform. On an old G3 500mhz powerbook ( pismo ) using OS X the Arturia Moog Modular is excellent. Quite posibly the update will improve latency and whatnot. I am looking forward to using this app with Numerology.

Of course the Arturia app is nothing like a real Moog Modular. But it can make some cute noises and has a nice sound. The cool thing here is that with a basic knowledge of old modular synths you can set up all those oldstyle patches fast. The Arturia does not sound consistenly excellent.. but then the Moog Modulars I have heard don´t either... but it is interesting to pursue those special sounds which really sounds nice on the Arturia.

BTW: I am a great fan of the Steinberg Model-E VST plugin. It is modeled after the minimoog but sounds not quite like the minimoog. Too bad..but it is good if you can forget the Minimoog and it makes some awesome noises. And it is easy to go for those sounds you know how to make on the minimoog even though the results aren´t exactly like the original. It has some of the weirdness the Arturia also has. You end up pursuing some sweet spots in the parameters.. but those are not there in the original hardware. But it makes some nice sounds anyway.

The Oddity, an ARP Odyssey clone is far better as modeling goes. Plugging the computer into an old keyboard amp is great fun. Extreme noises. It can also make those Odyssey sounds we have learned to hate Smile

One important issue with all those softsynths.. the build quality is far better than the originals and you do not have to be afraid of making scratches in the woodwork.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:


Note (June 11, 2003): The wma files attached were lost on the server during the crash of May 11, 2003 Sad

If anyone is interested, I'm willing to upload them again, in MP3 format. A few people had difficulty playing the WMA files. Just post a reply to this topic with that request and I'll do it.


if you can I would be interested in listening to your tests.
Thanks in advance Very Happy

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
if you can I would be interested in listening to your tests.
Thanks in advance Very Happy


I have uploaded both the wma files and the mp3 files. Check the previous message.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have listened to the three .mp3 files. Thanks!
the Arturia one is the worst for sure (dull sounding, bursts of white noise, staircasing galore)
the Nord one sounds fuller, harmonically richer than the Moog but the Moog is the smoothest of them.
You know that Robert Moog gave his OK to Arturia, right?
You can even buy MMV from his web site
http://www.moogmusic.com/detail.php?main_product_id=90
There must be a reason Very Happy

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:

You know that Robert Moog gave his OK to Arturia, right?
Yes, I know. He figures that no body is going to make a hardware version anymore, and that the Arturia is a great way to learn about what the old big modular systems were like. As for the smoothness, to be fair, I was turning a knob via the mouse. I should have set up the patches in all three to be filters with the sweep via a triangle LFO. I imagine if I was using a really good midi contorller there would be less staricase effects. Some people have told me I should do the entire review/test again because I was using an early release.

I've learned what I needed to learn. I'm waiting for the Nord Modular G2.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Greetings,

I use a Novation Remote 25, truly recommendable as a midicontroller! as the the Moog VST, I run on a 2,4 Ghz with 1 MB Ram, I have to say it is quite processor intense....

However, not being in the position toown the original, I am delighted with that pluging.

Of course... a hardware solution theses days subercedes the software possibilitities, but thats a matter of time, native 64 programs etc etc....

Nice forum btw. Surprised}

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great to have you around Mr. Bear. Yup, softwaresynths are pretty kool.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

laughingbear wrote:
I use a Novation Remote 25, truly recommendable as a midicontroller! as the the Moog VST, I run on a 2,4 Ghz with 1 MB Ram

only 1 MB Ram, impressive indeed Twisted Evil
I think you meant 1GB RAM. Isn't it? Very Happy

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Carlo? You did build the Paia vocoder? did you ever use it? Is that the same they are still selling? I was thinking about having some vocoders set up on 828 as an efx loop
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Carlo? You did build the Paia vocoder? did you ever use it? Is that the same they are still selling? I was thinking about having some vocoders set up on 828 as an efx loop

From what I can see at
http://www.paia.com/vocoder.htm
it looks exactly like the one I built in 1990.
I tryed to use it but to me it was not controllable, noisy and bad sounding.
I would suggest its use only to my worst enemy and so not to you!
I do not think that its poor quality depended on the fact that I am not a soldering ace because it did work!
I have tryed the MAM (Music and More) VF11
http://www.mam-germany.com/
and the Digitech stompbox Talker
http://www.digitech.com/discontinued/talker.htm
http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/103AES/DigiTech/Talker.html
the first gives you more timbral opportunities, the second one (discontinued) is very simple to operate but it's only a stompbox (it's intended for guitarists not for gurus like us Shocked )

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Arrgh.. I need guru gear..

Hmm.. I am looking for a vocoder or two which are oldstyle and with lotsa ins and outs.. you know.. not the ones that are integrated in mdoern synths.. I need something which is standalone. And I hope there is one out there which is reasonably inexpensive.. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Arrgh.. I need guru gear..

Hmm.. I am looking for a vocoder or two which are oldstyle and with lotsa ins and outs.. you know.. not the ones that are integrated in mdoern synths.. I need something which is standalone. And I hope there is one out there which is reasonably inexpensive.. Very Happy

you can try this forum
http://www.manhattansoundlab.com/spacelab/vocoders/

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Nord Modular has a decent vocoder - I saw a micromodular sell recently on ebay for $240.
Also the microKorg has a vocoder (and microphone), it's $400.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ahhh right! does the micromodular have inputs both for modulator and carrier?

I had several of the Roland rack unit. Guess that one might be an option too. Just get the same gear back.. must be some around still..
Had them in a flightcase.. called it Big Beef.

Hmm.. I guess I will ask Howard show me around the Nord modular when he drops by in september. Does the older Nord models and the micro make any sense.. or do I have to get the biggest / newest model?


I see that the Paia has some mods which supposedly removes all the noise..
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the latest version of Propellerhead Reason (2.5) has a nice vocoder.
Not in real time because Reason does not have audio inputs/outputs.
For off line audio mangling it's OK (for my humble ears, at least)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ohh.. yes.. I remember.. I have seen people use that one.

Anyway.. I think I am looking for an external device that has both inputs.. that way I can use it in real time.. and both for recordings and on stage. That forum had it all.. Lotsa info. Great! I see my old korg and Rolands there. Only problem is .. these days I have been accustomed to gear with very little noise and shit. Whenever I go back and try some old piece of gear the noise and shit really gets to me. Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes the Nord has inputs for both carrier and modulator.
Remember it's modular so you can use internal or external sources for either one, plus you can apply various processing to them or to the output.
However, the vocoder module consumes 49% of the processing power, so you are limited in how much other stuff you can do.
The new G2 is going to be better, but also more expensive.
There will not be anything equivalent to the micromodular in G2, just full keyboard and rack versions.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Correct me if I am wrong, but the micromodular is basically a box where all parameter control is done via a mac or PC? I have a few old macs which seem to be just what the doctor ordered for controlling the micromodular. It cannot cost much secondhand these days? Is the soundquality OK? The processing power not that impressive though?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe an old Access Virus A could be a nice choice too for vocoding. They should not be very expensive these days
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK.. does that have inputs both for carrier and modulator? Hmm.. I can probably find out somewhere on the net. On the other hand.. would this not be a waste of a wonderful little instrument?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
would this not be a waste of a wonderful little instrument?

you can use it for more than vocoding (it's 12 voice polyphonic)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ahhh... yes.. it is really OK isn´t it? I think I tested something called "Indigo" at the local music shop. Pretty cute little thing.
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