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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Nord Lead and Nord Wave synths
Lead Patches
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TheWeeeez



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:37 pm    Post subject: Lead Patches Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey everybody. I'm brand new to the board as well as brand new to the 2X rack mount. I just wanted to start a thread on your favorite analog synth leads(artists/songs) and ideas on how to approach recreating them. I'm not sure if any of yall are into the same stuff as I am but I figure thats all for the better. there are two leads I'm trying to work on right now, Jan Hammer's solo on Stratus(Billy Cobham/Spectrum), and Herbie Hancocks Chameleon lead. Chick Corea had some amazing patches with Return to Forever featuring Al Di Meola, Stanley Clarke, & Lenny White. I know the presets have some stuff that they site some of these guys but they don't have the guts that i hear out of some nord leads i've seen on stage. Thanks for your time and I look forward to future discussions on this forum.
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Are you sure all these guys are playing the NordLead?

Wout
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:42 am    Post subject: Re: Lead Patches Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TheWeeeez wrote:
Hey everybody. I'm brand new to the board as well as brand new to the 2X rack mount. I just wanted to start a thread on your favorite analog synth leads(artists/songs) and ideas on how to approach recreating them. I'm not sure if any of yall are into the same stuff as I am but I figure thats all for the better. there are two leads I'm trying to work on right now, Jan Hammer's solo on Stratus(Billy Cobham/Spectrum), and Herbie Hancocks Chameleon lead. Chick Corea had some amazing patches with Return to Forever featuring Al Di Meola, Stanley Clarke, & Lenny White. I know the presets have some stuff that they site some of these guys but they don't have the guts that i hear out of some nord leads i've seen on stage. Thanks for your time and I look forward to future discussions on this forum.


Welcome.

If I remember correctly, Jan Hammer used (back in the 70s) quite a lot of different kit, Moog, Oberheim and a Freeman string synthesizer stand out.
I remember him with a couple of Minimoogs and I think he had an Oberheim 4-voice. Minimoog is a fairly uncomplicated instrument to reproduce, if you get the filter settings right.

I remember seeing Herbie Hancock too, he had an ARP Odyssey and a Fender Rhodes.

Chick Corea had both a Minimoog and an ARP Odyssey. He also had a Moog 15 early on (this would be during the late 70s).

The Moog waveforms weren't all that "pure" and the filter was 24dB lowpass. It tended to have a much more fat and round sound than a nord lead (I have a minimoog voyager and a nord lead 1 so I can make comparisons). The ARP had a more pure oscillator, the odyssey's filter was 12dB rolloff, and was considerably different sounding. If I remember, a lot of Chick Corea's solos were on the Odyssey at that time.

To reproduce them you'd have the best luck trying to match which original instrument was used to the particular configuration on the Nord. Mostly it's going to be the filter and initial osc waveforms. For Moog patches the filter is going to be the 24dB, for an ARP it'll be 12dB. I've never had good luck replicating a Moog patch on my Nord, it's just too "clean", but I'll have a go with my oscilloscope and see if I can get two identical sounds out.

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TheWeeeez



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow Edison. what an awesome post!

Wout, certainly none of these cats were playing a nord lead but the nord is comperable in mechanics to analog synths of the time.

duplicating the filter settings of a minimoog is exactly what i'm talking about. The rolloff dB tips are great. were these guys mostly using saw waves?

Has anybody heard of the band Raq? they have anasty keys player who uses two nord leads in his rig. man does he rip. check em out.

www.raqmusic.com/
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Other than the classic buzzsaw lead (all sawtooths), harmonically, pulse waveforms are more interesting. On Return To Forever's Where Have I Known You Before(1974, Polydor 825 206-2), on the first track, was a particular solo timbre which was more a combination of saw and pulse mixed, with a non-resonant filter stopped down.

Harmonically a sawtooth is the richest. If you look on a spectrum analyser you can see that a sawtooth wave has all harmonics, where a 50% pulse has only odd harmonics. When you sum a saw and a square you get a doubling of the odd harmonics, yielding a more "woodwindy" sound. A lot of those fusion players didn't go in for high Q settings on their filters either.

Also watch the envelope settings both for filter stopdown and VCA attack and decay. A little (and I mean a little) increased attack on VCA with a slightly longer attack on filter cutoff boost gives a nice breath attack, for example.

The Nord is particularly suited for these kinds of sounds, by the way. Try a saw on VCO 1, 50% pulse on VCO2, set the filter to 12dB rolloff and play around with the Fc and you'll see what I'm talking about. Also change the VCO2 pulse width, which changes the harmonic structure, and you can see how much you can change the timbre.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good advice!

Trivia:
Live sound is something else. Consider that there might be limiters/compressors/preamps/transformers and such in the signal path. You will also perceive a loud mix differently. The room will add some artifacts and in general everything is driven more hot than you would ordinarily do in a studio.

When you want to recreate a certain synth lead you must also consider the signal path.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I´m sure it will not be uncommon say 7 years from now to have emulation/convolution devices in hardware synths. These will add various "famous" signal paths. Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
I´m sure it will not be uncommon say 7 years from now to have emulation/convolution devices in hardware synths. These will add various "famous" signal paths. Laughing


7 years? It might be a lot sooner than that!

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
elektro80 wrote:
I´m sure it will not be uncommon say 7 years from now to have emulation/convolution devices in hardware synths. These will add various "famous" signal paths. Laughing


7 years? It might be a lot sooner than that!



Sure, quite true, but I am kinda thinking of products in the 600USD-1100 USD range. Laughing

It would be easier to sell the concept at this price point. It would be a built-in Line Audio Pod style device.. but tweaked for keyboardists.

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TheWeeeez



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
It would be a built-in Line Audio Pod style device.. but tweaked for keyboardists.


wow, that would be a great little box. the nord lead is def fun to tweak though. the modulation/morphing function is really cool.
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