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Gothboy
Joined: Feb 21, 2006 Posts: 369 Location: Santa Monica, Ca.
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject:
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Hummmm, I've got the keyboard out of the housing but now I'm trying to remove the small board in the middle of it. I've got the screws out but it's attatched to the underside of the keyboard with a white ribbon cable. How does this cable come out?
How did you clean the metal part of the keyboard assembly near the computer boards that the rubber contact membranes sit on? I've got all kinds of grunge there and even a bit of mold that I want to clean off but I don't want to damage those boards. _________________ Apple Mac Pro 3.1 2.88 GHz. Intel Xeon Quad
16 GB Ram
10.8.5/El Capitan
Novation SL49/Remote Zero
Mophox4, Nord Lead 2, Roland System 1, Novation Nova, Nord Micro modular, Korg Radias, Roland d-05, Yamaha A3000 sampler, Novation SL MK2 and Remote Zero controllers, Arturia Beatstep and SparkLE
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject:
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No Jan,
I thought it looked prettier just hanging out there waving in the breeze! _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:08 pm Post subject:
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That flat ribbon cable just slides out of the edge connector on the main keyboard assembly.
For cleaning that PCB (especially the black contact pads) I'd use your de-natured alchohol on a lint free cloth. You could also try scrubbing it with alchohol on a tooth brush. Sounds like coffee got spilled onto it. Definately sounds a like a nice warm soapy bath is the go for the rubber switch membranes. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject:
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Uncle Krunkus wrote: | No Jan, |
ok ok
Did some further searching, nothing showed up. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Gothboy
Joined: Feb 21, 2006 Posts: 369 Location: Santa Monica, Ca.
Audio files: 2
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject:
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Uncle Krunkus wrote: | That flat ribbon cable just slides out of the edge connector on the main keyboard assembly. |
I decided to just give it a go and pull it out but thanks for the clarification.
Uncle Krunkus wrote: | For cleaning that PCB (especially the black contact pads) I'd use your de-natured alchohol on a lint free cloth. |
So it's ok to clean the green boards with alchohol?
Uncle Krunkus wrote: | You could also try scrubbing it with alchohol on a tooth brush. Sounds like coffee got spilled onto it. Definately sounds a like a nice warm soapy bath is the go for the rubber switch membranes. |
I think the guy I got it from said someone spilled beer into it! _________________ Apple Mac Pro 3.1 2.88 GHz. Intel Xeon Quad
16 GB Ram
10.8.5/El Capitan
Novation SL49/Remote Zero
Mophox4, Nord Lead 2, Roland System 1, Novation Nova, Nord Micro modular, Korg Radias, Roland d-05, Yamaha A3000 sampler, Novation SL MK2 and Remote Zero controllers, Arturia Beatstep and SparkLE
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams"
Dymaxion Vehicle Music at www.dymaxionvehicle.com/ |
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator
Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject:
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Gothboy wrote: | So it's ok to clean the green boards with alchohol? |
Yep, best thing for 'em. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator
Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:19 pm Post subject:
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Gothboy wrote: | I think the guy I got it from said someone spilled beer into it! |
Now you see, if the guy who was drinking the beer had been drinking de-natured alchohol, we wouldn't have a problem would we? _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Gothboy
Joined: Feb 21, 2006 Posts: 369 Location: Santa Monica, Ca.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:01 am Post subject:
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I've removed the 5 contact membrane strips and in doing so found the third one( from the right with the lever strip on my left) separated into two pieces right at the point where the two PCB boards meet. Everything else about it is sound....it's just separated at the seam. I wonder if the space between the boards and playing force over the years causes this and could it cause the one key over it to not work or is it purposely put there like that to compensate for the gap?
So my first though was to put the broken one on last in the highest octave to make sure the G in the middle octave works...but now I'm not so sure. What do you guys think?
I've got everything cleaned up pretty good so I'm about ready to do the re-assembly.
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Here's the broken strip....... |
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Here's the the gap in the boards.... |
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_________________ Apple Mac Pro 3.1 2.88 GHz. Intel Xeon Quad
16 GB Ram
10.8.5/El Capitan
Novation SL49/Remote Zero
Mophox4, Nord Lead 2, Roland System 1, Novation Nova, Nord Micro modular, Korg Radias, Roland d-05, Yamaha A3000 sampler, Novation SL MK2 and Remote Zero controllers, Arturia Beatstep and SparkLE
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams"
Dymaxion Vehicle Music at www.dymaxionvehicle.com/ Last edited by Gothboy on Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator
Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:35 am Post subject:
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No, not caused by playing force. Mine was the same. I think it's just the way it was made. The one at the top of the keyboard has weird keying in the rubber anyway, and can't be swapped for the others. I just put them all back in the same spots they came from. It's probably a good idea to rotate them if possible though. They would definately wear at different rates.
Looks like you've done a good job.
BTW Do you reckon we should add that text you sent me to this thread as an attachment? Who wrote it? Would they mind? I just think it would be good to collect all the D50 maintenance info in the one thread for other people to refer to. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Gothboy
Joined: Feb 21, 2006 Posts: 369 Location: Santa Monica, Ca.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:47 am Post subject:
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Whew! Glad to know that. Right now I'm putting the membranes back in place and struggling to get all the nibbles in the holes. hang on for a few. _________________ Apple Mac Pro 3.1 2.88 GHz. Intel Xeon Quad
16 GB Ram
10.8.5/El Capitan
Novation SL49/Remote Zero
Mophox4, Nord Lead 2, Roland System 1, Novation Nova, Nord Micro modular, Korg Radias, Roland d-05, Yamaha A3000 sampler, Novation SL MK2 and Remote Zero controllers, Arturia Beatstep and SparkLE
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams"
Dymaxion Vehicle Music at www.dymaxionvehicle.com/ |
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Gothboy
Joined: Feb 21, 2006 Posts: 369 Location: Santa Monica, Ca.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:20 am Post subject:
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Keys are going back on now..... _________________ Apple Mac Pro 3.1 2.88 GHz. Intel Xeon Quad
16 GB Ram
10.8.5/El Capitan
Novation SL49/Remote Zero
Mophox4, Nord Lead 2, Roland System 1, Novation Nova, Nord Micro modular, Korg Radias, Roland d-05, Yamaha A3000 sampler, Novation SL MK2 and Remote Zero controllers, Arturia Beatstep and SparkLE
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams"
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Gothboy
Joined: Feb 21, 2006 Posts: 369 Location: Santa Monica, Ca.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:33 am Post subject:
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Everything is back together...........and the G key still makes no sound. The problem keys in the lower register sound great now, but no sound out of the middle G key which is such a bummer beacause it's right in that middle register. Is there any other reason this key won't work? none of the rubber membranes were damaged or broken.....but it must have something to do with it not making contact on the board.
I guess I'm going to have to go back in there and see if there's some dirt on the contact board I might have missed or if that rubber membrane cell isn't making contact because it's too worn. Real bummer.
I also need a new bend lever because one side of where the plastic meets the spring is worn away...so the metal rod slips off. Before I couldn't bend down.....now I can't bend up....so I guess I need parts. A bend lever and maybe a contact strip. Is there a source for these old Roland parts? _________________ Apple Mac Pro 3.1 2.88 GHz. Intel Xeon Quad
16 GB Ram
10.8.5/El Capitan
Novation SL49/Remote Zero
Mophox4, Nord Lead 2, Roland System 1, Novation Nova, Nord Micro modular, Korg Radias, Roland d-05, Yamaha A3000 sampler, Novation SL MK2 and Remote Zero controllers, Arturia Beatstep and SparkLE
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams"
Dymaxion Vehicle Music at www.dymaxionvehicle.com/ |
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator
Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject:
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How did you clean the rubber membranes? There's still a chance that there's some solid beer sugar across the PCB contacts, and you just need to check and clean them again. How worn are the little black dots on the back of the membranes?
The good thing is that this time in you'll be concentrating on just one key. I doubt the chances of finding those membranes, but there is a possibility that somewhere (at Roland, or a service centre) there is a little drawer of brand new ones just waiting to be needed.
While you're there check the surrounding PCB, and take a nice closeup of the membrane underside and the contacts on the PCB. If possible, swap the membrane for one up in the higher registers. This will tell you if it's the membrane or the PCB, and will also possibly leave it playable.
Good Luck _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Gothboy
Joined: Feb 21, 2006 Posts: 369 Location: Santa Monica, Ca.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject:
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I first bathed them in denatured alchohol, then scrubbed them gently with a small toothbrush, then another bath, then I went over them again with my fingers/toothbrush. They didn't look too bad and I did look at the contacts on the underside and they appeared to me to be clean and OK before I put them back in.
I guess I can try a membrane swap but I have a sneaking suspicion that the one in question is that split one and that I might have to swap it with the far upper strip you said had to be used there.
The really sucky part is that I have to keep opening and removing those boards and then putting them back in to troubleshoot the problem and see if the key works. _________________ Apple Mac Pro 3.1 2.88 GHz. Intel Xeon Quad
16 GB Ram
10.8.5/El Capitan
Novation SL49/Remote Zero
Mophox4, Nord Lead 2, Roland System 1, Novation Nova, Nord Micro modular, Korg Radias, Roland d-05, Yamaha A3000 sampler, Novation SL MK2 and Remote Zero controllers, Arturia Beatstep and SparkLE
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams"
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator
Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject:
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Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm so sick of those 20 screws on the back! I understand now why maintenance techs are so keen on electric screwdrivers! Might invest in one myself.
BTW There's a small set of four which sit near the middle, (includes your dodgy G?) Then there are at least one, maybe two large ones going up the keyboard which have similar keying. I'm thinking, move these down and put the dodgy one before the weird one at the top. Then at least (if it's the membrane) your bottom 3-4 octaves will be fine.
I might try checking the possibilities of finding those switch membranes. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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modulator_esp
Stream Operator
Joined: Feb 04, 2005 Posts: 2845 Location: Nottingham, UK
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:38 am Post subject:
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If it turns out the membrane has gone, I'm pretty sure I've seen some stuff to repair them somewhere on the net. Now I just need to remember where _________________ Jez
music | adventures in sound | gear for sale |
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Gothboy
Joined: Feb 21, 2006 Posts: 369 Location: Santa Monica, Ca.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject:
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modulator_esp wrote: | If it turns out the membrane has gone, I'm pretty sure I've seen some stuff to repair them somewhere on the net. Now I just need to remember where |
Are you talking about the rubber contact pads or the contacts on the PCB board?
I bought some electrical contact cleaner today and soon I'll go back in to work on that one key area. _________________ Apple Mac Pro 3.1 2.88 GHz. Intel Xeon Quad
16 GB Ram
10.8.5/El Capitan
Novation SL49/Remote Zero
Mophox4, Nord Lead 2, Roland System 1, Novation Nova, Nord Micro modular, Korg Radias, Roland d-05, Yamaha A3000 sampler, Novation SL MK2 and Remote Zero controllers, Arturia Beatstep and SparkLE
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams"
Dymaxion Vehicle Music at www.dymaxionvehicle.com/ |
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modulator_esp
Stream Operator
Joined: Feb 04, 2005 Posts: 2845 Location: Nottingham, UK
Audio files: 276
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 3:30 am Post subject:
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Gothboy wrote: | modulator_esp wrote: | If it turns out the membrane has gone, I'm pretty sure I've seen some stuff to repair them somewhere on the net. Now I just need to remember where |
Are you talking about the rubber contact pads or the contacts on the PCB board?
I bought some electrical contact cleaner today and soon I'll go back in to work on that one key area. |
I was talking about the rubber contact pads - I think this is what I was thinking of:
http://www.oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/synth/korg/polysix/keyclean2.html
A quick search for 'rubber keypad contact repair kit' provides quite a few results, including:
http://www.web-tronics.com/rukerekit8.html
Not sure what you can do if the PCB contact is worn out _________________ Jez
music | adventures in sound | gear for sale |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 5:10 am Post subject:
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That kit from web-tronics looks cool. Wonder how well it works.
Well if all else fails Gothboy you've got that option. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Gothboy
Joined: Feb 21, 2006 Posts: 369 Location: Santa Monica, Ca.
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:21 am Post subject:
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Yesterday I went back to the D-50 to dig deeper and try a few things and now I know why the G key won't sound.....it has something to do with the contacts on the board. It's not the contact strip that's causing the problem. Interestingly, the G key in question resides over the last contact on the first green PCB board...the one right before the seam that you can see in one of the pictures...the only anomaly I can see is a tiny, and I mean tiny...connector wire on the board has surface coating worn away so you can see the copper underneath, though I don't know if it's leading to or away from the contact or that it is the thing that's causing the problem.
I pulled the thing apart, cleaned the black pads on the underside of the strip and the contacts themselves on the green board with denatured alchohol.....twice...gave 'em a good cleaning with a Q-tip. Cleaning the contacts on the board revealed additional black dirt that the first cleaning missed....so I was hopeful....but when I got it all back together....no sound
So I went in again, this time I swapped the strip in the area of the G key for the next strip up from it, put it all back again.....no sound. So it must be the contacts on the board. I really don't know what I'm going to try next. I guess I'll try to hunt down one of those contact kits but I really don't know how to use it or how to further diagnose what's wrong. I guess what I need is a new PCB board in there. My only consolation is that I didn't pay a tech $232.00+ for the cleaning and the troubleshooting! _________________ Apple Mac Pro 3.1 2.88 GHz. Intel Xeon Quad
16 GB Ram
10.8.5/El Capitan
Novation SL49/Remote Zero
Mophox4, Nord Lead 2, Roland System 1, Novation Nova, Nord Micro modular, Korg Radias, Roland d-05, Yamaha A3000 sampler, Novation SL MK2 and Remote Zero controllers, Arturia Beatstep and SparkLE
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams"
Dymaxion Vehicle Music at www.dymaxionvehicle.com/ |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:12 am Post subject:
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Gothboy wrote: | ...the only anomaly I can see is a tiny, and I mean tiny...connector wire on the board has surface coating worn away so you can see the copper underneath |
Maybe the copper trace itself got damaged as well, so that the switch is not connected anymore ? _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Gothboy
Joined: Feb 21, 2006 Posts: 369 Location: Santa Monica, Ca.
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject:
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Yeah, that's a distinct possibility. I just got off the phone with a rep from MG Chemicals, the company that makes the rubber contact repair kit. Very nice guy who was kind emough to not only explain how the product is applied and used but let me guide him to this very thread so he could take a look at the photos of the contacts. The kit is really for putting a conductive coating back onto rubber contacts like the ones the D-50 uses...so that's not exactly what I need....BUT... He said I can use the silver in the kit to repair the broken lead by applying a small dollop to the broken lead at the break point.....but before I hoof it down to the ONLY store in my state that carries it( about an hour away) I'm going to take an ohm meter and see if I get a reading connecting one side of the contact to the other.......but does the synth have to be plugged in to get an ohm reading on the contacts? _________________ Apple Mac Pro 3.1 2.88 GHz. Intel Xeon Quad
16 GB Ram
10.8.5/El Capitan
Novation SL49/Remote Zero
Mophox4, Nord Lead 2, Roland System 1, Novation Nova, Nord Micro modular, Korg Radias, Roland d-05, Yamaha A3000 sampler, Novation SL MK2 and Remote Zero controllers, Arturia Beatstep and SparkLE
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams"
Dymaxion Vehicle Music at www.dymaxionvehicle.com/ |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject:
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Gothboy wrote: | .....but does the synth have to be plugged in to get an ohm reading on the contacts? :?: |
No, better not.
Ohm measurement or continuity (or diode) measurements work by injecting a bit of current into the circuit and then measuring the voltage resulting from that. When current already flows because the equipment is on you'll get a false readout as the voltage measured is the result of the sum (or difference when they flow in different directions) of both currents.
It's a good idea to measure the resistance into two directions, So to make a measurement and then to swap the black and red lead for making another one. Depending on how the silicon stuff is connected the readouts could differ.
You said you were going to measure the contact, I hope you meant you were going to measure the trace. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Gothboy
Joined: Feb 21, 2006 Posts: 369 Location: Santa Monica, Ca.
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject:
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Yes Jan. I don't know if this is causing the problem but it's what might be and it is what I'm referring to. I get no ohm reading on the contacts....but I get no ohm reading on any of them as I guess the board has to have power going to it. But there's no way to do that as the D-50 has to be put back together to get any reading.....I guess. _________________ Apple Mac Pro 3.1 2.88 GHz. Intel Xeon Quad
16 GB Ram
10.8.5/El Capitan
Novation SL49/Remote Zero
Mophox4, Nord Lead 2, Roland System 1, Novation Nova, Nord Micro modular, Korg Radias, Roland d-05, Yamaha A3000 sampler, Novation SL MK2 and Remote Zero controllers, Arturia Beatstep and SparkLE
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams"
Dymaxion Vehicle Music at www.dymaxionvehicle.com/ |
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