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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Interested in Tau Pipe Phaser / Flanger boards ?
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: Interested in Tau Pipe Phaser / Flanger boards ?
Subject description: Interested in Tau Pipe Phaser / Flanger boards ?
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Hi,

I'm new in this forum.
Scott Stites gave me a hint that I should also post about my current project here. Smile

Many of you may already know about this strange effect device,
which sounds more like a flanger (some say, like a thru-zero flanger!),
but actually is a phaser with 20 (twenty!) all pass filter stages.

If you haven't heard it yet, go to
http://www.keyboardmuseum.org/soundsheet/soundsheet.html ,
scroll down to "The Pipe Phase Demo Record" and listen to the demo.

The service manual is located here:
http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/Diode%20Phaser/Diode%20Phaser.html

I think it's quite impressive and extreme sounding, and it's closely
related to the ARP Quadra Phaser which I've cloned some years ago:
http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/additional_schemos.html

And, looking for a project to further develop my pcb layout skills with
RIMU before I start that big Vocoder, I thought the Tau Pipe would be
a good choice.

I've redesigned the original circuit, such that there are no more exotic
components (no more obsolete dual FET), and all the circuitry that
originally was potted in the infamous PD-10 modules, is part of the main
circuit board in my version.
I plan to make the layout such that you can
*either*
(1) use cheap CA3086 transistor arrays
*or*
(2) - for an ultra low noise version - SSM2210, MAT-02, LM394 (expensive! 20
pairs needed!)
*or*
(3) use hand matched discrete transitors (unexpensive, but requires a lot of
work.)

Also on the board will be the complete power supply (except the mains
transformer),
and you can either connect a small transformer with 2 * 18V AC secondary
voltage,
*or* connect a single 18V AC source such as a Wall Wart.

All pots and jacks and LEDs will be connected externally with flexible wires
to allow some flexibility on the form factor (19" rack enclosure, or
tabletop box,
or even an oversized stomp box).
The PCB has a rather small size for what it contains (90mm * 160mm), but
it's probably
too big to fit behind MOTM or other typical modular front panels.

I'm currently in the process of having a first prototype made.
I may also create a Schaeffer front panel later (haven't decided on 19" 1U
or Tabletop
version yet.)

So, is there any interest for others to buy these PCBs, when / if the thing
works as
intended?
In the past, I've mainly built on veroboard and had to turn down requests
for pcb boards,
or even for readily assembled modules. Now, that I've bought a layout
software, the
situation has slightly changed for the better Smile

So, if you're interested in getting a board, let me know.
Right now, I have no idea what it will cost - keep in mind the whole project
will not
be cheap, with all these transistor pairs!
I won't offer complete kits. If there's enough demand, I'll sell the naked
PCB boards,
and publish the building information on my web site.

Let me know if you're interested, to find out if it's worth the effort.

JH.

http://home.debitel.net/user/jhaible/hj.html
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JH welcome

You can certainly put me down for one! I've wanted a Tau Phaser ever since I heard the demo record for it years ago. It's the most intense phasing effect I've ever heard (yep - a lot like through-zero flanging). Thanks for posting this!!

Cheers,
Scott
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andrewF



Joined: Dec 29, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi JH
Welcome beer
count me in for a PCB too.

I've built a few of your circuits - particularly for the frequency shifter and Korg designs. Thankyou for sharing!!
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23isgood



Joined: Nov 18, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh boy. I have wanted one of these ever since I heard the sample on that website you mention. Put me down for one for sure!

pete

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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Whoa - Andrew, you built the Frequency Shifter? That's a project I've always wanted to undertake. The Quadra Phase Shifter was another, but this Tau phase shifter really caught my attention listening to the sample.

The bummer of building the Pipe was the potted transistor ladder modules, but if anyone can decode those, it's JH. Someone mentioned on the SDIY list that it would be a perfect job for those THAT matched transistors, and Mediatechnology's store would be a great place to get those - last time I looked, I think he had Mouser beat on prices. Guess it boils down to if they could be implemented on JH's board.

Cheers,
Scott
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Danno Gee Ray



Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 1343
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:56 pm    Post subject: Boards Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That sounds very tasty.

I could be interested.
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goodrevdoc



Joined: Sep 11, 2006
Posts: 288
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

+1 on the board. You can count me in.
Also...
welcome
and thanks for sharing
-justin
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The Alison Project



Joined: Jul 21, 2006
Posts: 187
Location: Canada
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm in for one.

Welcome JH, been drooling over your page since I started in modulars.
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shawn



Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Posts: 209
Location: savannah

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Definitely put me down for one.
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yusynth



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 1234
Location: France

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Jürgen

Nice to see you here.
A 90x160mm PCB will fit nicely behind a 4U Synthesizers.com panel.
You may count me on for one board

Yves

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modularkomplex



Joined: Feb 14, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great stuff! I'm in for one.

Mike
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the welcome!

yusson wrote:
Hi Jürgen

Nice to see you here.
A 90x160mm PCB will fit nicely behind a 4U Synthesizers.com panel.
You may count me on for one board

Yves


Ah, then it may fit behind MOTM panels, too.

Let me check ... oh yes, it's definitely smaller than the power supply module, so it will fit!

JH.
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mark_olson



Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: 177
Location: Lawrence, Kansas

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow.

I would take one.

Thanks for asking.
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mediatechnology



Joined: May 10, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: Desoto, Texas USA

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible; Good to see you here! Your SSM2040 clone is one of my favorites.

I noticed that most of these designs use an output matrix. I did a stereo synthesizer design this way using an SAD1024 and later dropped in a pair of SSM2040s for an 8 pole dynamically-controlled phaser. I really loved that prototype. One of the cool things about matrixed outputs to derive stereo is that they fold down to mono.

There's a print here: http://www.ka-electronics.com/Images/jpg/stereo_synth_large.jpg

The matrix in the above is on the right-hand side. I didn't use them in 1982 but for a matrix output today you might want to consider using THAT or SSM balanced line receivers. Their tight resistor matching for low CMR in line receivers, when used in a sum-diff network, can provide some very deep nulls. It just takes two. The circuit below uses them in a panner; the lowest 1240 can be eliminated and the phaser output taken into the upper two 1240 as pins 1 and 2. The undelayed/processed signal would go into pins 3 and 3. There's a schemo here:

http://www.ka-electronics.com/Images/jpg/Matrix_Panner_1.jpg

I do have THAT300s for the ladder filters as Scott mentions. They're a quad device.

Last edited by mediatechnology on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Jurgen

Welcome on this nice forum.
I've read about this project on SDIY or AH.
I am really a great fan of the work you're doing in the DIY scene.
I certainly take one board at least!
Maybe i know a member on this forum who can silscreen frontpanels.
Are there any people willing to do a groupbuy one frontpanels?
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Coriolis



Joined: Apr 11, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi JH!
I'd be interested in a board, but unfortunately it would depend on the price. I'd say 30$ + shipping is the absolute max for me (to many other projects to pay for).

C
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Fernando



Joined: Dec 30, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm interested too!
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would buy at least one board. Probably one. Maybe two depending on the bill of materials expense.
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Coriolis



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Location: Stilling, Denmark

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is one of those things I'm know I'm not going to etch myself, or put on stripboard for that matter, so I'll just get the board, put in the bottom of the pile, and buy the expensive parts as I can afford them - while I build the gazillion other projects I've planned... Wink

C
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coriolis wrote:
This is one of those things I'm know I'm not going to etch myself, or put on stripboard for that matter, so I'll just get the board, put in the bottom of the pile, and buy the expensive parts as I can afford them - while I build the gazillion other projects I've planned... Wink

C


This is my sentiment.

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fonik



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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hallo jürgen,

great to have you here!

i built your wasp clone last year and it really rocks. on the modular synth meeting today some people where really astonished about the distortion section. great feature!

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coriolis wrote:
Hi JH!
I'd be interested in a board, but unfortunately it would depend on the price. I'd say 30$ + shipping is the absolute max for me (to many other projects to pay for).

C


I have no idea about the final price yet.

It's a quite densely populated double sided board.
What I have ordered now, in single quantity, is considerably more expensive than that (talking about my costs, without even any revenue for me).
But I think the cost will dramatically go down when I order in quantities. So maybe I can offer them for a good price.

So far, the response is overwhelming - much more than I expected.
I already see myself ordering a hundred boards in China. Very Happy
No, seriously: we're not quite there, but maybe we will.
(And I'm not at all sure about China - would be safer to buy the quantities from where I also got the prototype, probably ...)

Right now we're far from that. It'll take some weeks before I get that first board from the pcb prototype house; then I'll have to build it and check it thoroughly.
Then I'll get qoutes for an estimated number, and tell you for how much I can offer to sell them. I'll make some demos of how the actual thing sounds (the demos you already heard were from the original Tau device, of course!). Photos, drawings, etc., will be published on my web site. Then I'll ask again who will definitely buy one (or more), and place the order. I will only ask you to pay anything when I have all the boards in my hands and ready to ship.

If the whole thing works out to everyone's contentment (you're all happy with your phasers, and I make a slight plus - and no minus! - from the whole action), I'll have lots of other projects I can start in a similar manner. Smile

JH.


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Funky40



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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Salü JH.

It is very nice that you came here,
and that you will make this Board, and hopefully others more, available for us.
This way an electronics beginner as i am can benefit from your great work.
Thank you

btw.: the soundsamples from the original are amazing.
a Dream to have such a unit


jhaible wrote:
I plan to make the layout such that you can
*either*
(1) use cheap CA3086 transistor arrays
*or*
(2) - for an ultra low noise version - SSM2210, MAT-02, LM394 (expensive! 20
pairs needed!)
*or*
(3) use hand matched discrete transitors (unexpensive, but requires a lot of
work.)



this sounds perfect !
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StephenGiles



Joined: Apr 17, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Jürgen, of course you must make a + on this, your time is valuable! Looks like my Edirol Ro9 will have to wait!

My wife constantly reminds me that time is money, she teaches Spanish part time to adults at evening classes, and worked out that if working full time she would earn £56,000 per annum - what's that in euros......E78k?? Bloody hell that's a lot more that I get!
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krisp14u



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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi JH
that sounds like 1 cool phaser
put me down for 1 mabe 2 pcb's
cheers

Paul D
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