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goldenechos
Joined: Jun 06, 2007 Posts: 201 Location: Marshall, NC
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:42 am Post subject:
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I mwould pick up one of those boards.
TR |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:58 am Post subject:
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mosc wrote: | JH, have you considered using laser trimmed multipliers? IMHO, they are pretty fantastic. |
AD633 ?
This doesn't perform triangle to sine conversion!
I have considered the 633, because it's smaller and needs less external components.
But it's more expensive, harder to get, has no second source (AFAIK), and you still need to trim the offsets on each input. The only real advantage is that it cancels the quadratic feedtru term internally, without trimming. You need to to this with an extra trimpot on a MC1496. (Well, it's rarely done; I haven't had it in the FS-1 either. I learned about this from the EMS VCS3 ringmod circuit: With the offset trimmer, you minimise carrier bleedthru. What remains then, is a slight bleedthru at _twice_ the carrier frequency. You can suppress this with an extra trimpot. When you do this, the your bleedthru specs come close to an AD633.)
So with an AD633, I'd have one trimmer less than with a MC1496.
But I'd have to implement the whole triangle-to-sine conversion (with trimmers, of course!) with a separate circuit.
The beauty (if I may say so) of my 1496-based circuit is that it uses the input transitors of the multiplier to _also_ perform the required triangle-to-sine conversion! So you can drive the modulators directly with a set of quadrature triangle signals. The Sine conversion is even better than the overdriving-OTA method that is often seen, because it uses a degenerated emitter transistor pair, which allos for lower THD than just a differential pair. (It is not as good as a two-stage approach, like the Moog Modular VCOs use, though.)
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18195 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 211
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject:
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Good explanation, thanks. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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jksuperstar
Joined: Aug 20, 2004 Posts: 2503 Location: Denver
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 18
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:54 am Post subject:
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As usual, why buy one, when you can have 2 at twice the price?
Count me in for 2, please!
-justin |
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funkyfarm
Joined: Jan 21, 2007 Posts: 583 Location: France
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:36 am Post subject:
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a short description of the effect is here, for non-technician
http://hallgeir.no/hmt/fs-1/
and more sound clips to salivate Last edited by funkyfarm on Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sonicwarrior
Joined: Dec 22, 2005 Posts: 266 Location: Cologne, Germany
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject:
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Interest here, too. |
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tomcat
Joined: Oct 14, 2005 Posts: 141 Location: earth
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject:
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Jürgen,
I think the preselection is one part of the DIY thing and has to make fun
Honestly, if somebody can not calibrate a diy project with standard tools like a good multimeter hes not ready for that kind of project. If we go to more advanced stuff like osci, frequ counter and so on it may be different. But even for the blacet kits you need these tools, so ...
I really would prefer to see you continue developing and sharing nice or crazy things, then to see you suffering selecting and soldering 100reds of caps.
Just my 2 cents |
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goldenechos
Joined: Jun 06, 2007 Posts: 201 Location: Marshall, NC
Audio files: 1
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject:
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Agreed.
TR |
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funkyfarm
Joined: Jan 21, 2007 Posts: 583 Location: France
Audio files: 3
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject:
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No.
The front panel is from FS-1.
FS-2 was planned as a standalone unit, but then became part of the Matrix FX, where it's called "SSB Mod" (Single Sideband Modulator).
It uses insanely expensive parts (partly for reasons that lie in the context of the Matrix FX, and don't have much to to with frequency shifting).
What I'm going to bring to PCBs is an updated version of the FS-1.
Inexpensive components, good quality, thru-zero carrier, capability of slow barberpole phasing.
Can't avoid a lot of trimmers, though.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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prophei
Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 234 Location: san francisco, ca
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:29 am Post subject:
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i'd be interested in a pcb. =] |
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Kerr_Avon
Joined: Jan 09, 2006 Posts: 43 Location: UK Aldershot
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:44 am Post subject:
Oh er yes, a future classic |
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I'd go for a couple. Mine has a bit too much feedthrough:] |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject:
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This is just preliminary information, but at the moment it looks like this:
The whole Frequency Shifter, except the dome filter, will probably fit on a single Euro format board (160mm x 100mm).
This won't include a power supply or microphone preamp.
(needs +/-15V stabilized dual voltage, and works on line level to synth level.)
The dome filter board will be much smaller (160mm x 45mm)
See:
http://jhaible.heim.at/matrix_fx/jh_matrix_fx_dome_photo.jpg
That way, wiring will be kept reasonable, *and* the board size isn't too big for MOTM or similar synthesizers.
JH.
Description: |
Teaser screenshot of yet unfinished FS-1A main board |
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_________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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Fernando
Joined: Dec 30, 2006 Posts: 286 Location: Barcelona & Emporda, Spain
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:34 pm Post subject:
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niiice! |
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prophei
Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 234 Location: san francisco, ca
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject:
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sorry, i am a little bit new here... what is the dome filter exactly, and how does it relate to this frequency shifter?
thanks! |
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StephenGiles
Joined: Apr 17, 2006 Posts: 507 Location: England
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject:
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I'm definitely interested. |
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toppobrillo
Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:32 pm Post subject:
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verry nice very niiice |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject:
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prophei wrote: | sorry, i am a little bit new here... what is the dome filter exactly, and how does it relate to this frequency shifter?
thanks! |
It's an essential part of the Frequency Shifter (at least of that specific method of frequency shifting).
Mathematically, it's an approximation of a Hilbert transformation - which produces a phase shift of exactly 90 deg (+/- a very small error) for any frequency within a certain range (within the whole audio range, in that case).
More about the various components of a Frequency Shifter:
http://jhaible.heim.at/tonline_stuff/hj_fs.html
Also google for "Single Sideband Modulation"
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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prophei
Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 234 Location: san francisco, ca
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject:
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jhaible wrote: | prophei wrote: | sorry, i am a little bit new here... what is the dome filter exactly, and how does it relate to this frequency shifter?
thanks! |
It's an essential part of the Frequency Shifter (at least of that specific method of frequency shifting).
Mathematically, it's an approximation of a Hilbert transformation - which produces a phase shift of exactly 90 deg (+/- a very small error) for any frequency within a certain range (within the whole audio range, in that case).
More about the various components of a Frequency Shifter:
http://jhaible.heim.at/tonline_stuff/hj_fs.html
Also google for "Single Sideband Modulation"
JH. |
ok, so then if without this filter the board may be euro compatible, would the smaller filter board be particularly difficult to mount behind a euro rack faceplate with it? i am assuming that you just meant it didn't fit on one pcb...correct?
thank you
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject:
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prophei wrote: | jhaible wrote: | prophei wrote: | sorry, i am a little bit new here... what is the dome filter exactly, and how does it relate to this frequency shifter?
thanks! |
It's an essential part of the Frequency Shifter (at least of that specific method of frequency shifting).
Mathematically, it's an approximation of a Hilbert transformation - which produces a phase shift of exactly 90 deg (+/- a very small error) for any frequency within a certain range (within the whole audio range, in that case).
More about the various components of a Frequency Shifter:
http://jhaible.heim.at/tonline_stuff/hj_fs.html
Also google for "Single Sideband Modulation"
JH. |
ok, so then if without this filter the board may be euro compatible, would the smaller filter board be particularly difficult to mount behind a euro rack faceplate with it? i am assuming that you just meant it didn't fit on one pcb...correct?
thank you
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I'm not so good at mechanical stuff - you have to figure out a clever way to mount it behind the front panel of your choice. I was only talking about the board size, not about compatibility with (Euro) rack systems.
Two boards; one 160 * 100, one 160 * 45.
ETA: that's not quite right; see below ...
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) Last edited by jhaible on Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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radioland
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:44 am Post subject:
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Quote: |
I'm not so good at mechanical stuff - you have to figure out a clever way to mount it behind the front panel of your choice. I was only talking about the board size, not about compatibility with (Euro) rack systems.
Two boards; one 160 * 100, one 160 * 45.
JH. |
A complex and expensive project, but a very interesting sound effect.
I would take this two boards. |
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krisp14u
Joined: Nov 11, 2006 Posts: 206 Location: uk
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:25 am Post subject:
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jhaible wrote: | This is just preliminary information, but at the moment it looks like this:
JH. |
I've got way 2 much to build but if i don't sign up i will never forgive my self
so put me doown for 1 or 2
also looks a nice bord JH good work _________________ Cheers
Paul Darlow
www.krisp1.com |
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vtl5c3
Joined: Sep 08, 2006 Posts: 425 Location: PDX
Audio files: 13
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:32 am Post subject:
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Juergen,
If someone wanted to build a stereo unit, they would simply need to buy two of each board, correct?
Romeo |
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Fernando
Joined: Dec 30, 2006 Posts: 286 Location: Barcelona & Emporda, Spain
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:13 am Post subject:
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Master of Circles
Joined: Jun 27, 2007 Posts: 14 Location: Hamburg
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject:
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Hello out there at the screens,
I am interested in one or two Shifters.
thanks in advance,
Master of circles |
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