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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
CE-1 clone ?
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:58 pm    Post subject: CE-1 clone ? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thinking about future pcb projects ...

Are there any Boss CE-1 Chorus Ensemble clones available?

It's the mother of all chorus pedals, it sounds gorgeous, used ones are traded for a lot of money, so why not make a pcb for this?

Are there any pitfalls?

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am in Laughing
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germaniac



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mono-poly wrote:
I am in Laughing

DITTO!
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b-funk



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

as the guitarist of my first (and last Very Happy ) band had one, and i right now feel a little sentimental about it:

YES, PLEASE!!!
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I´ve got the UAD-1 Roland CE-1.. but yes.. a hardware clone would be darn nice.
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Peake



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would definitely get one. IIRC, they distorted easily, but as you already know, what a sound.. There's a local (LA) gent who specializes in rechipping DACs, boards, etc. and he does the CE1 as well, so there is room for cleanup in there somewhere.
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StephenGiles



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Didn't that use TA7136?
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

StephenGiles wrote:
Didn't that use TA7136?


Ah, so here's the catch! Thanks for pointing this out.

I've looked up the data sheet - it's not quite an ordinary opamp. Is the 7136 considered important for the CE-1's sound? If so, I could probably make a discreete replacement ... I guess I could figure this out frm the data sheet. Very Happy

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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The Alison Project



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.retro-sonic.com/forums.html?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=31
Retro Sonic makes a clone in pedal format.

I am in as well
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Alison Project wrote:
http://www.retro-sonic.com/forums.html?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=31
Retro Sonic makes a clone in pedal format.


Interesting!

How much are they asking for the pedal? (their phaser has a buy-it-now button, but the chorus hasn't ..)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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The Alison Project



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
The Alison Project wrote:
http://www.retro-sonic.com/forums.html?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=31
Retro Sonic makes a clone in pedal format.


Interesting!

How much are they asking for the pedal? (their phaser has a buy-it-now button, but the chorus hasn't ..)

JH.


http://www.axeandyoushallreceive.com
sells it for $269 USD
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok then ... I was afraid I'd try to sell a board for 25, when you can get a wole stomp box for something like 80 ...

Anyway ... I wonder, if I go for a CE-1 (just thinking out loud!), I should better combine it with a nice preamp?
It's true, the original is clipping easily, and that is not part of the desirable sound.
I've been thinking ... maybe a preamp in Jazz Chorus 120 style, combined with a CE-1 ? With the possibility to bypass whatever part you want, of course.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Brilliant idea!
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The Alison Project



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree, that would be perfect and individual bypassing is a must..

I built the CE-2 clone with mods from tonepad and loved that thing until I got to use a friends CE-1, been lusting over one for awhile now.
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StephenGiles



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Of all the cities I have visited in Europe and the Americas, I have only ever found 2 electronics stores - one in Madrid where I bought 2 TA7136s about 15 years ago, and one next to the cathedral in Quito, Ecuador in 2004 where I didn't!
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Peake



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

StephenGiles wrote:
Of all the cities I have visited in Europe and the Americas, I have only ever found 2 electronics stores - one in Madrid where I bought 2 TA7136s about 15 years ago, and one next to the cathedral in Quito, Ecuador in 2004 where I didn't!


There is a possibility that some are available if you are willing to shell out the yuan...

http://www.hqew.com/Buy/Inventory/Searchic.asp?keyword=TA7136
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b-funk



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the TA7136 is available at small bear electronics

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Categories.bok

for 2 $

best wishes,

tobias
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germaniac



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The TA7136 is here for an arm/leg:

http://www.bdent.com/search/part.jsp?partnum=TA7136AP

Maybe something like the NJM2068 (though it's dual) would perform in a similar way? Here:

http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/N/J/M/2/NJM2068.shtml

Regards,
Joe

EDIT : B-Funk, you beat me to the post. Small Bear to the rescue again! Thanks.

Last edited by germaniac on Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Peake



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is the 7136 responsible for the unattractive distortion? This should not be a problem.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

b-funk wrote:
the TA7136 is available at small bear electronics

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Categories.bok

for 2 $

best wishes,

tobias


Thanks for the hint; I just ordered a couple of these.

I do not recommend stocking up on these, for a possible CE-1 project, however. I have bought them to analyse them, to make creating a replacement easier. Or to find out if there's any substatial difference in sound, compared to an ordinary opamp, at all.
We must keep in mind that early versions of the CE-1 didn't have that chip, either.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

germaniac wrote:

Maybe something like the NJM2068 (though it's dual) would perform in a similar way? Here:

http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/N/J/M/2/NJM2068.shtml



That's an ordinary opamp topology, with complementary output stage and all.
I'm quite sure that once I've found out what makes the other chip different, I can emulate it somehow.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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b-funk



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

aber gerne doch Very Happy

which opamp was used in the earlier models?

best,

tobias.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

b-funk wrote:
aber gerne doch Very Happy

which opamp was used in the earlier models?

best,

tobias.


TA7504S (or TA75045 ?)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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zero the hero



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have the TA7146 datasheet if this could be of any help.
Count on me for buying a PCB, i gave up doing a layout of this because of this chip (I had not enough time for finding an equivalent).
So I switched to the less straight-forward Mad (but with no tropical components) Boss DC-2... it took a month of work but it was well worth.

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zero the hero wrote:
I have the TA7146 datasheet if this could be of any help.


The 7136? I have the data sheet, thanks. It even gives the open loop gain frequency response, and the internal topology, so I guess with two days work and PSpice I could probably figure out the resistor values, transistor betas etc, to make a good discrete clone.
But I'll try a real 7136 first and see if it really makes a difference.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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