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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Solina or Onmi ensemble board?
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If I'd make a string chorus PCB, what kind of multi-BBD circuit would you prefer?
Solina style (also: Crumar Performer, Böhm Phasing Rotor, and others)
62%
 62%  [ 28 ]
ARP Omni style
13%
 13%  [ 6 ]
Elka Synthex 4 BBD circuit
11%
 11%  [ 5 ]
other (please name in thread)
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
I would want neither - it's old fashioned and overused, and if I need it, there are digital FX boxes
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 45

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:07 pm    Post subject: Solina or Onmi ensemble board? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

More thinking about future projects Laughing

Several people have asked me about a string chorus PCB project.

It shouldn't be much difficult, but it's eating 3 BBD chips.

I wonder if you prefer the sound of Solina or ARP Omni?

Guess I try to start my first poll now.

JH.

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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wonder how the roland paraphonic 505 ensemble sounds.
That might be a good sounding one to.
But i never heard one to be honest.
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that is actually a hard question to answer, not because I don't remember the sounds, but because there is more than one answer. The Crumar is a signature sound, but my love was in the ARP so I voted that way.

I loved the Elka better than the Crumar... Embarassed

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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I haven't voted yet but i prefer the Solina above the Arp Omni one.
Wonder how the Roland Paraphonic one sounds compared to the Solina.
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Peake



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would be really suprised if people ended up wanting an Omni instead of a Solina. The Solina is the shiznit.
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Evan



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I voted for the Omni, not because of any preference for the sound, but because I had the opportunity to play with one in the 80s.
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Peake



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Understood.. I've been lucky enough to come across modified Solinas, with inputs to the chorus circuit, and spent some time processing various signals through it. It makes everything shimmer and swirl. I personally, a personal opinion, don't find that the circuits that came after that mimic the ensemble effect of multiple BBD as well.

Everybody likes something different.
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Serenadi



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:06 am    Post subject: Re: Solina or Onmi ensemble board? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
More thinking about future projects Laughing



I'm not yet ready with collecting all parts for the Tau. Laughing


I like the Solina very much - luckily I own one.

But maybe the TCA350 (the modulator chip) is more responsible for that sound than we like. (The nice double lfo too, of course).
I didn't even find a datasheet of the TCA350. Sad


What's about the Polysix Ensemble ?
It's a dense and fat modulation too.
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OMG the Arp one is gonna win right now from the Solina?
Maybe i should start voting for Solina to.
But i still wonder how the Roland Paraphonic sounds.
Anyone can compare that one with Solina or Arp?
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germaniac



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I haven't voted because I lack experience with most of these, but I am certainly "in" if a PCB comes out of it. What ever the consensus comes to be, I trust the electro-music.community will settle on the right thing. (How many organizations can you say that about? You guys should be running the country (USA), if not the world. JH for President?)

FWIW, I've only heard the chorus in the Moog Opus III, which IIRC uses three SAD512s. That one sounds decent, but again I have nothing to compare to.

Regards,
Joe
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Solina or Onmi ensemble board? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Serenadi wrote:
jhaible wrote:
More thinking about future projects Laughing



I'm not yet ready with collecting all parts for the Tau. Laughing


I like the Solina very much - luckily I own one.

But maybe the TCA350 (the modulator chip) is more responsible for that sound than we like. (The nice double lfo too, of course).
I didn't even find a datasheet of the TCA350. Sad


What's about the Polysix Ensemble ?
It's a dense and fat modulation too.



The TCA350 is a quite short BBD line.
But I think later Solinas used the TDA1022 ?

Crumar Performer has the TCA350, too.
Boehm Phasing Rotor 78 has the TDA1022.
I never owned a Solina, but I think both the Crumar and the Boehm make a convincing "Solina" string sound.

The Polysix sounds too dark and dirty in ensemble mode for my taste. I have the FX section of the Polysix as a 19" rackmount effect, and barely use the Ensemble. The Chorus is nice. Best thing, however, is the FX section with all FX switched off. The signal goes thru a LM13600-based compander then, which adds the tiniest amount of distortion and "edge" to my Wurlitzer piano.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mono-poly wrote:
OMG the Arp one is gonna win right now from the Solina?
Maybe i should start voting for Solina to.
But i still wonder how the Roland Paraphonic sounds.
Anyone can compare that one with Solina or Arp?


Here's a sample of the ARP Omni inspired ensemble effect I'm made for my PS-3200 clone:
http://jhaible.heim.at/polykorg/samples/jh3200_ensemble.mp3

I like the Solina better, but chose this deliberately to have something different. (I already had 2 Ensemble FX with the Solina method.)

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:
Understood.. I've been lucky enough to come across modified Solinas, with inputs to the chorus circuit, and spent some time processing various signals through it. It makes everything shimmer and swirl. I personally, a personal opinion, don't find that the circuits that came after that mimic the ensemble effect of multiple BBD as well.

Everybody likes something different.


I like them all. Smile
The Solina, of course. And unless there's an overwhelming majority for the ARP in the end, I'd rather go for the Solina, because it's the classic sound.

I fell in love with the Onmi when I played a Piano / String combination thru its ensemble. (Not sure if it's called piano; it was something percussive at least.)

My favorite string sound is from The Korg Lambda, though: Just the 3 VCOs that sync and are repeatedly knocked out of sync by the LFO. With the ugly on-board BBD effect turned off. Sometimes I run it thru the Boehm, when I want Solina lush-ness.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

I like them all. Smile
The Solina, of course. And unless there's an overwhelming majority for the ARP in the end, I'd rather go for the Solina, because it's the classic sound.


Why bother having a vote then? Make what you want!

Perhaps the Omni isn't "popular" as much as it is "familiar". A lot of people probably don't know a Solina from a Solaris. Younger members wouldn't necessarily know either. When I played the Omni (and I still own a PolySix, and I always managed the ensemble effect meself) it was like nothing else I had heard, and I am familiar with ARP's various products, particularly the String Ensemble. Anyway, "classic" applies to any of them.

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Serenadi



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Here's a sample of the ARP Omni inspired ensemble effect I'm made for my PS-3200 clone:
http://jhaible.heim.at/polykorg/samples/jh3200_ensemble.mp3


This sounds imho a little more grainy and less dense than the Solina.

I modified my Solina years ago in the way, I can switch every single sections of the modulator (three in all) on and off.
The example nearly sounds like I switch off one of the sections.
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julianw



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Swirly Solina for me MMmmm
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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was going to put in my vote for the korg poly-six ensemble, because that's the only one I've heard... but if you don't think it's worth it....

I do like the JH3200 sample that you posted. That's the classic string synth sound!
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Peake



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There are clear solina riffs in this song:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0hhm0NHhCBg

The Solina raw tone is a darkish saw wave, so take that into consideration in the examples.

The Cure used the Solina in nearly every song on "In Between Days", IIRC.

Things get even more fun when you change the modulation rate(s), I've heard.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just made a short demo of the Boehm Phasing Rotor 78, in Ensemble mode, which is an emulation of the Solina chorus as far as I can tell.

First two chords are dry:
I played the Korg Lambda with all its oscillators in sync (i.e. without the lush modulation that's normally typical for Lambda strings), to have a fairly dry and sterile input signal.

Next two chords are with the Boehm switched on. (Is this close enough to Solina?)

The rest is Lambda -> Schulte Compact A clone -> Boehm

A tad of reverb on everything.

JH.


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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Luka



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i vote for solina
always wanted one
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thx for the demo's Jurgen.
I voted Solina now Smile
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mono-poly wrote:
Thx for the demo's Jurgen.
I voted Solina now Smile


Ok, but does this mean it's close enough to the real Solina?
This is important; please all of you be honest with me, if it's not close enough just tell me so. Exclamation

What you hear in the demo is a TDA1022-based Solina clone from Boehm, for which I have complete schematics.

I have official schematics for the TCA350-based Solina, and I have partial schematics of the TDA1022-based Solina that someone else has drawn from the circuit board, probably with some loose ends / question marks.

If I go for it, I want to do it right.

JH.

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23isgood



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The thick phasing at the end of that Boehm sample sounds fantastic! I want that sound. So is this a phaser or a chorus?
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

23isgood wrote:
The thick phasing at the end of that Boehm sample sounds fantastic! I want that sound. So is this a phaser or a chorus?


That's not part of the ensemble FX, though:
"The rest is Lambda -> Schulte Compact A clone -> Boehm "

(I thought the Compact A brings out the Enselble FX's qualities nicely, so I added this as an extra.)

JH.

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Rjb1978



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

YES! YES! YES!!
Hello Jurgen. Wink

Solina chorus would be brilliant! I could have sworn i emailed you like several hundred times about doing this, good news.. Very Happy

Rob from AH.
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