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Genoqs Octopus
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lebenspuls



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:29 pm    Post subject:  Re: Genoqs Octopus
Subject description: Midi Sequencer
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I got it a few months ago and it changed my way of composing. After understanding the basic architecture it's amazingly easy to playfully create new and interesting material. The combination of two different ways of track-modulation (step-events modulate track-attributes from inside the track and Effector cross-modulates different tracks) gives uncountable possibilities of experimental pattern evolution. Although I only scratched the surface yet I can say that for me it's already worth the price and I even got much more in terms of creativity boost than expected.

Hey... and this is my very first mail promoting some product!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Genoqs Octopus
Subject description: Midi Sequencer
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lebenspuls wrote:
[...]to playfully create new and interesting material.


I think Dieter's videos, especially the first one show that nicely Very Happy

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Dayflight



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Genoqs Octopus
Subject description: Midi Sequencer
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Hi Lebenspuls,
thank you for your words. For me its the same. I normally do not promote products but in this case I think its time to tell musicians about the Octopus as a musical instrument.
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:19 am    Post subject: Re: Genoqs Octopus
Subject description: Midi Sequencer
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Dayflight wrote:


I´m only a simple user and I am not the developer of the Octopus (this is Gabriel Seher and Marcel Achim) but in this case I like to tell people about this device which convinced me from the beginning.


Okay- I'm with you. You're just marketing it right?

I'm with Mosc on this one. It's more of a musical instrument than a 'tool'? Ever since I dropped hardware for software, things have come more contrived- like a painting that no one can view until you've finished it? Even so called interactive software such as Ableton Live feels like playing an instrument with boxing gloves on!

How about making a miniature version with limited tracks- for a cheaper price. Or better still, a strictly limited DIY version specifically for electro-music.com's DIY forums?? Wink That walnut or mahogany (?) case looks expensive too Shocked

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Dayflight



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 3:26 am    Post subject: Genoqs Octopus
Subject description: Midi Sequencer
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Hi,
the question for a cheaper Octopus is a question you should aks Genoqs dirctly (info@genogs.net or com).

Cheers
Dayflight
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It doesn't seem all that expensive when you look at what you get.

Consider if you are a skilled pianist and want a very good MIDI keyboard.

Look at the Continuum Controller, good wind controllers, Buchla lightning controllers, etc.

This is a nice art object - is is a no-compromise quality design. When the Octopus is running in a dimly lit room, it satisfies your fix for old SiFi movies - visually and sonically.

I would love to have one, but I spent all my money going to Chateau Sonore.

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
It doesn't seem all that expensive when you look at what you get.


Shocked What? That huge chunk of mahogany or whatever it is? I bet that bumps the price up tenfold??! Shocked

mosc wrote:


Consider if you are a skilled pianist and want a very good MIDI keyboard.



Well to be honest, you buy a secondhand upright piano or cheap midi controller- like the majority of people do. My wife is a 'skilled pianist' (or whatever that means?). The piano that sits to the left of me cost a fiver (to cover the cost of diesel getting it here). Her father, who is a concert pianist is surrounded by weird and wonderful antique keyboards that mostly came from old churches that cost next to nothing. Okay, his main piano is a Steinway, but knowing Alan, he probably got that cheap too!! Laughing

The Clavia G2 costs about £1300 (less if you shop around). It's way more versatile than the Octopus yet is much cheaper. The Latronic Notron was cheaper, the Ondes Martenot keyboard controller from AS was cheaper.

2400 euros is a lot of money for a controller. There is no getting away from it. If I had the money, I wouldn't hesitate in buying the Octopus, but I cannot afford this- ever, which is a real shame because it now means that many highly creative people just won't ever get the chance (or maybe they will in 15 years time after picking one up on ebay for 100 bucks? Wink Idea )

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
...or maybe they will in 15 years time after picking one up on ebay for 100 bucks?

I wouldn't bet on something like that to happen. My guess is that the Octopus will remain rare and expensive with a small but staunch number of followers.

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cbm



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Well to be honest, you buy a secondhand upright piano or cheap midi controller- like the majority of people do.


Sure, but with that as an operative principle, I'd say this controller just isn't for you.


v-un-v wrote:
The Clavia G2 costs about £1300 (less if you shop around). It's way more versatile than the Octopus yet is much cheaper. The Latronic Notron was cheaper, the Ondes Martenot keyboard controller from AS was cheaper.


Horses for courses. If you assume digital recording, you can create any sound with the pencil tool in an audio editor. Ultimate flexibility, with minimal cost. Why would I buy a G2? What? You say that creating sounds with the pencil tool is too hard? Of course it is. How much are you willing to pay to make it how much simpler?

The same basic principle applies to step sequencers. There are plenty of step sequencers available, at lots of different price points, with a variety different capabilities. The Notron wasn't as solid or capable as the Octopus, and the company went out of business. Pick one that has the features you want, at the price you can afford. This is a very high end product, and priced accordingly. I would love to grab an Octopus, but I'm too broke after buying a my modular system. I don't think the Octopus is particularly overpriced, though.

-C
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cbm wrote:
v-un-v wrote:
Well to be honest, you buy a secondhand upright piano or cheap midi controller- like the majority of people do.


Sure, but with that as an operative principle, I'd say this controller just isn't for you.




Why? The price? The additional add-on's? What then??

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Dayflight



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:23 am    Post subject: Genoqs Octopus
Subject description: Midi Sequencer
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Hi folks,
what is the correct price for a product? What costs the Andromeda 6? Or the OASYS? Why is a Mercedes more expensive than an Opel?

The Octopus makes no sound but is a "livetime" musical control instrument in high quality. Most will not give it away for years because of that. About which synthi you can say that?

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lebenspuls



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:44 am    Post subject: Re: Genoqs Octopus
Subject description: Midi Sequencer
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as someone who contributed with some personal experiences to this topic I can't resist to step again into this what I think is becoming a bit futile discussion:
I bought an interface for my electronic instruments. I was hoping to get more than a "controller" for my money (and 2.5k euro is a lot of money for me). I got more than I hoped (and I was a bit wobbly spending so much money for it). Now I am happy and happy people want to share...
If someone thinks this marketing ... so what; if someone thinks I am an idiot... perhaps I will agree with him... If someone thinks it's overprized...
hey let's make some music or at least let us talk about music making...
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think the designers did a very good job. At first glance the Octopus does not look like a € 1000.- machine. It really looks like € 2400.-

I admit, I won't buy one, because I don't need a step-sequencer. Yes, Tom, the G2 ia more then enough, if I need one. Would I buy one for the museum? If it's about controlling devices and designs, sure, although the museum wouldn't exhibit it under power, so there goes the show...

But still the machine has charism, on stage and in the studio. It works and looks good!

Wout
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:05 am    Post subject: Re: Genoqs Octopus
Subject description: Midi Sequencer
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Dayflight wrote:
Why is a Mercedes more expensive than an Opel?


Good point. My car- a Vauxhall Cavalier (an Opel to everyone outside of the UK!) is extremely reliable, does 50 miles to the gallon and has now clocked up 170,000 miles. Exclamation The Cavalier was considered the best car that Opel ever made. A Merc, on the other hand, although well made is very much a 'label car'. You are paying for the name. The bottom line is that both machines will deliver you to your chosen destination reliably and (within reason) relatively safely. So they both do exactly the same thing. The only real difference is that one costs a few thousand pounds and the other, several thousand.

I'm not really getting at anything here apart from a Logic Audio workstation is going to be a little more expensive than the Octopus- but will also do a lot more. I'll personally conclude that the Octopus is nothing more that a rich man's toy. Putting it in that fantastic shell is a good thing imo though, because unfortunately, I don't think that it will sell a great amount (remember I also said the same thing about that orange coloured electronic midi squeeze-box gizmo- and got flamed for being cynical about that, but where is that machine now?? but please DO prove me wrong) I'm sure that all those who do buy one (like the Mercedes) will love the experience. Me? I'm gonna keep dreaming of that day when I pick up a G2 for a few hundred quid and perhaps my next car will be a 200D or something? Wink Very Happy

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Dayflight



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:04 am    Post subject: Genoqs Octopus
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Hi again,
I think we should stop the prize discussion here because I´m not responsible for that. But I feel for myself that every Euro for the Octopus was a good Euro and has nothing to do with "rich men toy". I also bought a Virus TI Polar for Euro 2.500....is this a "rich men Toy", too? Whey is a nearly perfect Midi Sequencer less than a very good Syntheziser? Because it has no sound engine???? A MAC Book Pro plus Logic costs more than Euro 3.000,- but the Octopus can replace them if you like to work only with hardware. Think about this.
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cbm



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: Genoqs Octopus
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v-un-v wrote:
I'll personally conclude that the Octopus is nothing more that a rich man's toy.



Certainly that must be true for all music gear? Perusing music is a "rich man's" pass time. Being able to attempt music as a career, or being able to afford a hobby, is a luxury not available to most in this world. Aren't we only arguing about degree here?

Some people can afford more expensive toys, but we should all feel lucky that we can afford toys at all.

-C
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Genoqs Octopus
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cbm wrote:

Some people can afford more expensive toys, but we should all feel lucky that we can afford toys at all.

I agree, this is food for thought Exclamation

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: Genoqs Octopus
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cbm wrote:
Perusing music is a "rich man's" pass time.


Err- no? Don't you think that this is a bit of a 'sweeping statement'? What about singing the blues? In countries like Pakistan the 'Bangra' genre of music is essentially the blues sung by poor people. If you've got a good voice, it may be possible that you may sell enough records to 'live off' (or cassettes/ CD's), but most do it because it is in their blood. The same applies to similar genres in other countries- Greece for eg. etc etc.

Perhaps my "rich man's toy" statement above was a too harsh a choice of words, or it was mis-read? I didn't mean it that way. I was trying to draw a parallel between computer and car or more to the point computer and dedicated hardware and scale economies. It is not surprising that the Octopus is expensive as it is very much a specialist 'toy' (btw 'toy' was the term that used to be used in this country to describe outboard equipment. An AMS reverb is "a rich-man's toy" compared to say a spring reverb or whatever for example This is how I'm describing the Octopus).

BUT.......

I have to agree with Carlo that "the Octopus will remain rare and expensive with a small but staunch number of followers". Because of its price it will remain a luxury item for only those who can afford it. Yes an Access TI also costs a lot of money, so does the Mac system running whatever, but when you add it ('it' meaning all the individual components) all up it goes well out of the reach of the common man. This is also a common mistake that people make when they choose the DIY route too, as the initial out lay of equipment, tools and components can be quite overwhelming.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote off a Bis record:

Quote:
If you buy a guitar over 40 pounds, you're mad.


What sets the Octopus apart from other megabucks devices (like modular systems) is that I actually think it could appeal to a larger crowd.

/Stefan

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:
megabucks


kilobucks?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Editor's comment: The term "rich man's toy" is pejorative. If the forum is going to remain civil, we need to think very carefully before using a term like that.

I once, regrettably, referred to reverb as a "cheap trick". This really upset a lot of people. One one hand, why should I care if people are aggravated by a little considered comment I may have made - on the other hand, if I had thought just for a minute, I could have phrased it in a more "non-violent" way. What I really meant to say was the I thought reverb was often over used.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, back on topic.

I think more interesting than the price of the Octopus, is the trend this might possibly be suggesting for the future.

Here, we see people spending considerable money on a controller. The voices are today becoming a commodity. You can get great sounding synth voices for relatively little money, both hardware and software. What is becoming obvious to me is that controllers are the future.

In this way, the Octopus, Buchla's lightning, The Continuum Controller, etc. show that control for performance - devices that allow the musician to actually play - are where it's at.

I've had many discussions with analog modular owners. We argue on and on about the sound. Usually, the thing comes down to this: the modular synth owners like the playing interface. They like all those knobs and the lack of quantization in the controls. It's that tactile experience in playing a modular that excites them.

The Octopus gets you involved in the music. It won't suit some people, but it will be great for others.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
What is becoming obvious to me is that controllers are the future.

...or maybe "advancements of the user interface" are the future.
I agree, anyway Exclamation

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
mosc wrote:
What is becoming obvious to me is that controllers are the future.

...or maybe "advancements of the user interface" are the future.
I agree, anyway Exclamation


I bought a Doepfer MAQ16 a few years ago and sold it after a few moths. What fascinates me with the Octopus is the possibility to go beyond putting numbers in, changing speed and track-lengths... Self-modulating tracks interacting in different ways with other self-modulating tracks and being able to manipulate the way of interaction is for me a new approach to generate complexity after experimenting for a few years with programming generative algorithms.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
mosc wrote:
What is becoming obvious to me is that controllers are the future.

...or maybe "advancements of the user interface" are the future.
I agree, anyway Exclamation


This is a significant point. And yes, people will pay for them.

A good Selmer saxophone costs more than this sequencer/interface. I bought a buchla-designed Moog-marketed Piano Bar interface because I wanted expression using my medium. A lot of people don't do keyboards, and I see no reason why they shouldn't use a sequencer on steroids if they want to.

Walnut ends? My wife buys wood to build her 10th century instruments. Walnut ends are about £5 raw, if you're careful with your milling, and finishing them would be about another £2 max. Classy looks can be had for cheap. Mahogany isn't much more, I might add. Teak might even be cheaper. Kevazinga would be more striking, and more expensive, but not by much, given that rainforest hardwoods are available, but you might not want people to know you are using endangered hardwoods on your interface. Rich man's toy, indeed.

Controllers are NOW, not the future. Anybody who has used an EWI or a Thunder or a Pianobar or Lemur or even a Wii-cum-controller is working on finding a new control medium. I say the more the merrier. And if a sequencer isn't a controller, what is? Especially a sequencer like this.

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