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OS X 10.5 - first impressions
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:

Hi,

Thanks very much for the info and offer of the disk it is very kind of you.

I have a firewire disk setup already with a 10.4.10 installation from my MacPro, can I do your trick with this disk?

Cheers

Andy


Possibly, and possibly not. Some stuff will be missing/added on the MacPro model specific installation but since you have updated to 10.4.10 the updater might have added some vital stuff. You might want to clean the Libraries for stuff that you don´t want on your MB too.

I have successfully managed to boot an MBP from an MP drive, but there were issues. PM me when you get the MB and we can then look into this more in detail.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
I suggested somewhere above that killing incompatible stuff in the frameworks folders is smart. Some of the unsanity apps will bluescreen your 10.5 mac, so getting rid of Shapeshifter and Application Enhancer is a must. -before installing 10.5!!!!!!

/Library/Frameworks/Application Enhancer.framework



Indeed!!!!;


Macfixit.com wrote:
Today's Featured Article
Late-Breakers
Friday, October 26 2007 @ 03:00 PM PDT
Failure to boot after installing Leopard (Mac OS X 10.5)

Hundreds of users are reporting an inability to properly startup after installing Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard). This issue is typified by a successful installation, but a persistent blue screen on the subsequent restart, requiring a forced shut down. Unsurprisingly, virtually every user reporting this problem used a straight upgrade ("Upgrade Install") rather than performing an Archive and Install or Erase and Install as we previously recommended. You could argue that (in theory) most users select "Upgrade Install," hence users reporting problems will cite it. However, the facts that literally every report we've received of this problem so far implicates "Upgrade Install," and many users report that going back and performing an Archive and Install or Erase and Install instead solves the issue are telling.

Also, while (as we've noted for every incremental Tiger update) the first restart can be longer than usual -- up to 10 minutes or more in some cases -- many users have waited patiently for more than 60 minutes: a strong indicator that something has gone horribly wrong.

Some sample reports from a rapidly growing Apple Discussions thread:

"I'm upgrading my 20" iMac (Core Duo) at the moment and the installation 'completed', then the computer rebooted and it has been sitting on a plain blue screen for the past 30 minutes. Did a (straight) upgrade."
"15" MBP. Selected Upgrade. Ran through the install. Rebooted. Blue screen, black cursor, no activity I waited about 30 minutes before forcing the reboot. After bootup, same screen. I have Apple Care on the MBP so I called in."
"I received my copy of Leopard today and it is the same thing here with my PowerBook G4. It keeps getting stuck with the empty blue screen while booting. I tried rebooting a few times but it does not help at all. The vents are blowing full throttle so something is calculating, I guess. The mouse is moving but that is it. I am waiting for an hour now. [...] Maybe I should add that I did a straight update of my 10.4.10 and did not install the custom language support and some printers. Everything else remained standard."
MacFixIt reader K Stern adds:

"Installing on a PB 1.67. 2megs of RAM. Running 10.4.10. Ran Disk Warrior before install. After doing a Upgrade Install it reboots. Gray screen for a few seconds then... Blue screen for 1 sec then... Blue Screen again then nothing. Waited over 1/2 hour. Noticed my fans running hard and lots of heat. What I've done so far: Shut down; Started up from Install disk; Run Disk Utility (no problems found); Tried to do it again with same negative results."

The obvious solution, which has already proven successful for most users experiencing this problem, is to simply boot again from your Leopard DVD by holding down the "C" key at startup and choose one of the Archive and Install or Erase and Install options. See this article for a description of the different install types.

Remove APE haxies (ShapeShifer, etc.)

Another potential cause for this issue that shouldn't be shocking if you've routinely paid attention to MacFixIt: the presence of APE modules. Before installing Leopard, remove APE modules via this uninstall process.

Again, some pertinent posts from Apple's Discussion boads:

"I managed to fix this issue with my machine. I was getting the BSoD (for shame, Apple, doing the same thing we used to be able to prod Windows users about) and suspected it to be APE. Rather than go through the insanity of uninstall/restore/archive and reinstall, etc, I decided to try to manually uninstall APE and continue booting. It worked"
"This solved it for me. I didn't have the (APE) prefpane loaded, but the others were there and removing them fixed it perfectly."
If you've already installed Leopard, can't boot, and need to remove the haxies, restart into single user mode by holding down the Command and S keys simultaneously during startup. Next, enter the following commands, pressing return after each (as compiled by Apple Discussions poster Chris Mcculoh).

rm -rf /Library/Preference Panes/Application Enhancer.prefpane
rm -rf /Library/Frameworks/Application Enhancer.framework
rm -rf /System/Library/SystemConfiguration/Application Enhancer.bundle
rm -rf /Library/Preferences/com.unsanity.ape.plist
Reboot normally and check for proper startup.

Interestingly enough, since these haxies are stored at a system level, they would have been eliminated (and, in turn, the startup problem eliminated) by using an "Archive and Install" or "Erase and Install" rather than "Upgrade Install."

Other fixes

There are also a few other fixes that might not necessitate the aforementioned, most culled from our tutorial "Startup fails (particularly after a system or security update); solving". However, we have to stress this point: if something has gone wrong during the installation of Mac OS X 10.5 that's causing the startup issue, these fixes may be only temporary and you might encounter other problems later. The only surefire way eliminate such problems is to perform a re-install and select something other than "Upgrade Install.":

Disconnect external devices Try removing any FireWire, USB or other external peripherals then re-attempting startup.

Take this Apple Discussions poster:

"I had heaps of stuff connected to my laptop, I disconnected this before I restarted and this seemed to help."

Or this one (with a slightly different issue, in that Leopard wouldn't complete its installation):

"I had the 10.5 install hang midway thru the 'Installing' screen on my trust old mac mini. It didn't move for about an hour so I hit the power off and disconnected all additional devices (2 x LaCie HDDS, EyeTV box, Apple TV) and changed from wireless mouse to wired. So far so good - the install has now proceeded way beyond where it was and tells me I have 15 mins left (the estimates that the install for time to complete are way out btw)."

Boot in Safe mode Try starting in Safe mode (hold the "Shift" key while you startup), then delete some cache and .plist files to make sure their corruption isn't at fault. Since many tools for doing this haven't been updated for Leopard, there is a manual process which involves dragging the following files to the trash:

com.apple.kernelcaches (a folder in /System/Library/Caches)
Extensions.kextcache (a file in /System/Library)
Extensions.mkext (a file in /System/Library/)
com.apple.ATS (a folder in /Library/Caches/)
com.apple.loginwindow.plist (a file in /Library/Preferences/)
Files that start with com.apple.LaunchServices (in /Library/Caches)
You will be prompted to enter your administrator password when dragging these files to the trash. You may need to restart after moving them to the trash.

Next, go to the Accounts pane of System Preferences and click the "Login Items" tab. Select all the login items and click Remove, then restart. Also, check the /Library/StartupItems and /System/Library/StartupItems folders and remove any third-party items.

Finally, look in the folder /System/Library/Extensions for any third-party kernel extensions (files that end in .kext). Remove the kernel extensions and check for persistence of the issue.

Feedback? Late-breakers@macfixit.com.


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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Right, I see they have noticed this one too. I was just about to write a post on .kext hunting as well.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-
Last edited by xjscott on Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ahh. the text in the quote up there? I see. Yes, it´s dangerous advice and these files aren´t in any of the OS X dotted directories so it´s in fact easier tp let people remove this manually through the GUI.

( In OS X directories like private have a dot in front of them to make them invisible so if you are on your way to .private/etc you´ll have to snap it visible or use the terminal. ( In OS X, the visibility of dotted directories can be turned on and off )).

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

WOAH!! Leopard just came via TNT

Forget OS X- just check out the holographic packaging instead!!
Shocked Cool

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

xjscott wrote:
Where you see this go horrible wrong, especially on the internet with cut and paste directions is when there is something like:

rm -rf / Library/SomePath/SomeFile

Oops! An extra space between / and L and now you are doomed.


Another classic:

rm -rf file. *

<space> between . and * - deletes everything from here and downwards - don't do this! It happened to me once and as a result I tend to never use an asterisk in conjunction with an rm -r command. Best thing is to use a shell that allows filename completion (tab), go to where the directory I want to scrap lives, type rm -r (I always try -r alone first, on a properly set up system it will work), the start of the directory and then <tab> until I get it right. That way there will always be a single valid directory name.

/Stefan

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ooooww nasty! Shocked

Leopard otoh is amazing! Really fast. Much faster than Tiger. Rosetta is awesome. All my rosetta apps are flying- it's great. However Safari has quit on me a couple of times- but it may be because I'm still using the old version?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
ooooww nasty! Shocked

Leopard otoh is amazing! Really fast. Much faster than Tiger. Rosetta is awesome. All my rosetta apps are flying- it's great. However Safari has quit on me a couple of times- but it may be because I'm still using the old version?


You are not using the old version are you? Shocked Shocked Shocked

But yes, 10.5 is really something. There are some issues as discovered by the iDefrag and Diskwarrior people and we will see some vital updates soon. Still I think 10.5 is really great. There are some compatibility issues. Acrobat CS 3 is one. I won´t upgrade the graphics workstations at work anytime soon, but I´m looking into upgrading the laptops. The differences between a Macbook on 10.4.x and 10.5 are pretty noticable. As for updating your DAWs, my only advice is to make sure that you know what you are doing. Check out all the compatibility issues and then consider the consequences.

There are some very noticeable differences between the 10.4 and 10.5 GUI. Some of the changes are great, some are confusing at first and some are in the David Lynch department. Many changes are simply cosmetic and should be possibly to cope with.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have sold my PowerBook and should get a MBP soon. the installed OS should be 10.4.10 and for the time being I won't upgrade to Leopard until I am super sure there won't be compatibility issues for my DAW. Logic Studio and Reason are OK but I'm not quite sure about midi interfaces, G2 editor etc.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does better Rosetta mean better performance of the Nord Modular Classic editor? Has anyone tried that?

/Stefan

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
v-un-v wrote:
However Safari has quit on me a couple of times- but it may be because I'm still using the old version?


You are not using the old version are you? Shocked Shocked Shocked



I was, but not anymore. Laughing

What I had done was to put Safari into a folder within applications called "web things" or something like that so I could find it in a hurry. Of course the 10.5 update didn't notice this- so I got two versions of it Laughing

Trying to get Saft working again now. Saft imo makes Safari as good as or even better than Firefox. You can't get Apple services in FireFox which is shit- and shows what a pile of nonsense it really is Very Happy
Okay, perhaps not 'even better' but at least Safari works better.

Leopard really is amazing. I'm really sold on it now Cool As for David Lynch..... try opening the desktop file from the dock then close it again while holding down shift...... Shocked Laughing ......... what's all that about then????? Laughing

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