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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Feedback question
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jamos



Joined: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 470
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 36

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:48 pm    Post subject: Feedback question Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm working on a patch (attached) that uses feedback around the string oscillators to produce gnarly tones. If the patch is played normally, it sounds pretty and gauzy.. but if you lean on the keyboard, the aftertouch brings in feedback that can at times sound truly ugly, and at other times...

.. it just drops out :'( :oops:

It's clear that the G2 has some sort of mechanism to prevent runaway feedback, which is probably a good thing.. but I sure don't like hearing teh sound just kind of fade out just when it should be starting to spit eardrums. Ny intent, or course.

Can anyone recommend some imporvements to this patch that will prevent it from dropping out?

BTW, it seems that the dropouts are more frequent in 1.2....


Haunted Strings.pch2
 Description:
Strings with gnarly aftertouch feedback.. try wheel and bender too.

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 Filename:  Haunted Strings.pch2
 Filesize:  2.37 KB
 Downloaded:  873 Time(s)

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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17618
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool patch...

It drops out for me too when I lean into the keys. It seems the problem is in the FX section because if you byass the filter, flangers, and delays, you don't get this effect. I noticed this because the output meters on the Input and Output modules indicated there was an overloaded signal on the FX out, but not on the FX in. I haven't had a chance to try to figure out what is actually causing the problem.

Hope this helps...
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jamos



Joined: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 470
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 36

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, Howard; that seems to be most of the problem. I didn't even look at the FX page when I was trying to analyze teh problem.

Redcuing the levels has been a big help; I might try the compressor as well.
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003
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Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, the compressor is a good thing for any patch, but especially one that is designed to blow up! Laughing

On the old NM G1, I had a patch I loved that used only two oscillators with cross modulation. It would blow up, but I really enjoyed it. When I played with Bill and Greg, the other guys in Xeroid Entity, they found it frustrating that my levels were jumping all over the place and messing up the mix. Putting in a compressor saved the day. Now I use them almost as a matter of course.
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davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 467
Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Feedback question Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know if this is causing the drop-out effect in this case, but I have seen this symptom caused when the feedback loop in a patch starts to exhibit a DC offset. If the signal starts to shift away from centered-around-zero, moving more & more positive or negative, it will eventually start to clip, and then gradually 'choke' and finally go silent as it becomes a flat DC signal pressed all the way against the positive or negative max level.

A good fix for this is adding a simple high pass filter in the feedback loop, set to a very low cutoff frequency like 20Hz. This will pass all audio, but will block DC (which is an infinitely low frequency) and keep the waveform centered around the zero crossing.

Dave Peck


jamos wrote:
I'm working on a patch (attached) that uses feedback around the string oscillators to produce gnarly tones. If the patch is played normally, it sounds pretty and gauzy.. but if you lean on the keyboard, the aftertouch brings in feedback that can at times sound truly ugly, and at other times...

.. it just drops out :'( Embarassed

It's clear that the G2 has some sort of mechanism to prevent runaway feedback, which is probably a good thing.. but I sure don't like hearing teh sound just kind of fade out just when it should be starting to spit eardrums. Ny intent, or course.

Can anyone recommend some imporvements to this patch that will prevent it from dropping out?

BTW, it seems that the dropouts are more frequent in 1.2....

_________________
Dave Peck
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17618
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Feedback question Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davep wrote:
I have seen this symptom caused when the feedback loop in a patch starts to exhibit a DC offset.

Wow, Dave. I've experienced this DC offset and never really understood what it was until now. Your post lit a lite in my head. Idea

I guess I never though of using the highpass filter as an AC coupler. Maybe an AC coupler is a good module for the wish list. It might be cheaper than a high pass, but in the meantime the HP will save many a day...
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