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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:42 am Post subject:
Famous Fixed Filters - FFF PCB ? |
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I've been thinking about PCB projects for 2008.
What dou you think about a collection of "Famous Fixed Filters"?
I think fixed filters are much underrated. Sure, the first thing you need in a synthesizer, is a variable filter - a VCF. Several VCFs, actually. The next step are fixed filters like filter banks, graphic and parametric equalizers, for formant shaping.
But then there are the "preset filters" that have been optimized in ensemble keyboards, electronic organs, the Polymoog, the Vocoder Plus, you name it. These filters can be emulated with parametric EQs to a certain degree, but it would still be nice to have the original filter, in dedicated hardware, with all their complexity, all their special overload behaviour, all their character.
But there's a problem:
A few years a go I built a rackmount FX to emulate the Human Voice filters of the Roland Vocoder Plus VP330.
This is an example for such a filter - but IMO it's not worth to make a dedicated module for this. It's a waste of front panel space to make a dedicated module for such a small filter circuit.
So I had the idea to combine many such fixed filters in one module.
Right now I try to find out how many "famous" fixed filters I can put on a single 160mm x 100mm PCB - and which filters are your favorites.
The Polymoog comes to mind.
All kinds of Formant filters in electronic organs.
A "manual" filter like the SH-5 BPF.
...
Anything that needs a minimum of front panel controls and has a lot of
character.
Let me know what filter you would like to see included.
And if you're interested in such a PCB at all.
The idea is to offer a board for 27.00 Euro with all the filters on it, and then allow various configurations:
(1) Each filter may have its dedicated input and output jack.
(2) You have one general input and output, and a set of switches, or a rotary switch, to choose your favorite fixed filter.
(3) You could also connect potentiometers to each filter output and mix them all together.
(4) You could have normalized input and output jacks, to use certain filters separately, and still mix some of the others together.
(5) You could feed different waveforms into dedicated filter inputs, and then mix the outputs.
(6) or any other combination that comes to mind.
Let me know what you think about this idea.
Would you buy such a board?
What classic filters would you consider mandatory in such a collection?
Looking forward to hear from you!
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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elektro80
Site Admin
Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:48 am Post subject:
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Oh yeah! Bring it on!
Uh.. I almost forgot the shades... there: _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:51 am Post subject:
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elektro80 wrote: |
Oh yeah! Bring it on!
Uh.. I almost forgot the shades... there: |
Yeah, but what filters would you like to see included?
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:53 pm Post subject:
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Going on your reputation ALONE - I'm IN for at LEAST 1 of the PCBs.
Filter's preferences though - my knowledge is sparse. My STRONGEST desire definately, is for a 'vocal' filter. (In the mid 90's I started on my own Vowel_S_, filter. Never completed it, though I still have it's start. Trimmer MADNESS on it. )
Outside of that, my only requests are modulation possibilities for Fc and/or Resonance in at least 1.
Vocal though - is by far, my HUGEST desire. Outside of that - I'd rely on your knowledge / experience as well as other's inputs.
1 PCB for SURE - I'm already interested in. Could quite easily move up to 2 depending on what all else gets added to it.
(And typical for me - I'll have attenuated Ins/Outs for everything as well - as I have no shortage of panel space. lol ) |
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2669 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 626
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject:
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Nice idea.
"vox humana" from polymoog keyboard. Maybe the "chorus" from the korg lambda. |
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bugbrand
Joined: Nov 27, 2005 Posts: 846 Location: Bristol, UK
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject:
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Hey Ryk,
I don't want to sidetrack Jurgen's post (which is interesting!)
- but for vocal filter ideas you could have a look at the (quite) recent Chatterbox post - there's a big document with details about what responses you're looking for. The project has voices too (throat and noise), but you could easily just make use of the filtering section with a little work.
--> http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-21642.html
I think this implementation is very different from what Jurgen is proposing! _________________ http://www.bugbrand.co.uk
http://www.bugbrand.blogspot.com |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject:
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bugbrand wrote: | Hey Ryk,
I don't want to sidetrack Jurgen's post (which is interesting!)
- but for vocal filter ideas you could have a look at the (quite) recent Chatterbox post - there's a big document with details about what responses you're looking for. The project has voices too (throat and noise), but you could easily just make use of the filtering section with a little work.
--> http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-21642.html
I think this implementation is very different from what Jurgen is proposing! |
Thanks for mentioning that one Tom! I'd saved the PDF before, but I never even THOT of just pulling the filter from it! Cool. Shall have to gander at it again. |
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mono-poly
Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 937 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
Audio files: 2
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject:
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Yeah i'd love to see a vocal formant vcf pcb.
With a preset switch to configure the filters for the kind of sound you want.
This is a good example
http://www.marksmart.net/sounddesign/choirsounds/choirsounds.html
Coolest would be if the presets could be selected by CV or perhaps gate/triggers.
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Peake
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject:
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The PolyMoog, the "vocal" formant filter you put on your Solina clone, etc.
Like the Buchla 296, you may wish to add a VC BPF which would allow the different bands to become "illuminated" as you sweep across them. I've not yet checked to see if that is just after the inputs or if it filters across the FFB outputs.
I think that the Moog FFB has the most character due to the technology that is utilized, but Modusonics still make those for a living. |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject:
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bugbrand wrote: | Hey Ryk,
I don't want to sidetrack Jurgen's post (which is interesting!)
- but for vocal filter ideas you could have a look at the (quite) recent Chatterbox post - there's a big document with details about what responses you're looking for. The project has voices too (throat and noise), but you could easily just make use of the filtering section with a little work.
--> http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-21642.html
I think this implementation is very different from what Jurgen is proposing! |
Yes, I guess I have to clarify this: Despite the fact that I've chosen some "vocal" preset as an example, I have no intention to make any vocal/speech animator.
So VP330 Human voice, Polymoog Keyboard Vox Humana, or Lambda Chorus are candidates for my board - but I don't want to make it a competition for a Delay Lama - or a vocoder, for that matter.
I'd say 2 or 3 vocal presets, plus a bunch of other presets.
The aim here is clearly not to make a perfect emulaton of the human voice - but a perfect emulation of classic synth instrument's preset filters!
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject:
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Peake wrote: | The PolyMoog, |
Just the Vox Humana, or other filters from the Poly Moog as well?
ETA: Thinking of it, maybe the *complete* set of the PolyMoog's fixed filters would be worth having in a standalone box. Is that waht you meant?
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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mono-poly
Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 937 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
Audio files: 2
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject:
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jhaible wrote: |
So VP330 Human voice, Polymoog Keyboard Vox Humana, or Lambda Chorus are candidates for my board - but I don't want to make it a competition for a Delay Lama - or a vocoder, for that matter.
I'd say 2 or 3 vocal presets, plus a bunch of other presets.
The aim here is clearly not to make a perfect emulaton of the human voice - but a perfect emulation of classic synth instrument's preset filters!
JH. |
For vocal filters i'd love to see the these two Jurgen
- Farfisa Polychrome
- VP-330
These are really the ones i'd love the best.
I think i got acces to schematics of the Polychrome. |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject:
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Love that Ligeti-esque mp3: http://www.marksmart.net/sounddesign/choirsounds/JDLigeti.mp3
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject:
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mono-poly wrote: | jhaible wrote: |
So VP330 Human voice, Polymoog Keyboard Vox Humana, or Lambda Chorus are candidates for my board - but I don't want to make it a competition for a Delay Lama - or a vocoder, for that matter.
I'd say 2 or 3 vocal presets, plus a bunch of other presets.
The aim here is clearly not to make a perfect emulaton of the human voice - but a perfect emulation of classic synth instrument's preset filters!
JH. |
For vocal filters i'd love to see the these two Jurgen
- Farfisa Polychrome
- VP-330
These are really the ones i'd love the best.
I think i got acces to schematics of the Polychrome. |
Do you, ore does anybody, have the Polychrome schematics?
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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mono-poly
Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 937 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
Audio files: 2
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:36 pm Post subject:
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I used to have a broken polychrome.
At that time i bought a copy of the service manual for about 40 euro.
I did send an email to that friend if he could get me a copy of the formant vcf section jurgen.
I'll let you know when i got it. |
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Peake
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject:
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jhaible wrote: | Peake wrote: | The PolyMoog, |
Just the Vox Humana, or other filters from the Poly Moog as well?
ETA: Thinking of it, maybe the *complete* set of the PolyMoog's fixed filters would be worth having in a standalone box. Is that waht you meant?
JH. |
Hi, I've never owned one or spent quality time with one, so I say, use whatever is there, that is good.
I only remember having an interest in the resonantors at one point, and took it that this was the "Vox Humana" that others are mentioning. |
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2669 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:32 pm Post subject:
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jhaible wrote: | Just the Vox Humana, or other filters from the Poly Moog as well?
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From memory, the other preset filters are probably not worth the trouble.
I think the polymoog preset filters used inductors like the moog Fixed filter bank.
I wonder if adding a bbd chorus to the project would be worth while, switchable from pre to post filter? |
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mono-poly
Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 937 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:22 am Post subject:
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jhaible wrote: | mono-poly wrote: | jhaible wrote: |
So VP330 Human voice, Polymoog Keyboard Vox Humana, or Lambda Chorus are candidates for my board - but I don't want to make it a competition for a Delay Lama - or a vocoder, for that matter.
I'd say 2 or 3 vocal presets, plus a bunch of other presets.
The aim here is clearly not to make a perfect emulaton of the human voice - but a perfect emulation of classic synth instrument's preset filters!
JH. |
For vocal filters i'd love to see the these two Jurgen
- Farfisa Polychrome
- VP-330
These are really the ones i'd love the best.
I think i got acces to schematics of the Polychrome. |
Do you, ore does anybody, have the Polychrome schematics?
JH. |
Jurgen i am gonna pick up the service manual this weekend.
If everything goes fine i will have a pdf made it of the upcoming days at work. |
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norman phay
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 176 Location: North-East England
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:28 am Post subject:
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This sounds like a great idea, Jurgen. As long as it does the VP330 effect, I'll be happy, TBH. Everything else is a bonus for me. |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject:
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mono-poly wrote: | jhaible wrote: | mono-poly wrote: | jhaible wrote: |
So VP330 Human voice, Polymoog Keyboard Vox Humana, or Lambda Chorus are candidates for my board - but I don't want to make it a competition for a Delay Lama - or a vocoder, for that matter.
I'd say 2 or 3 vocal presets, plus a bunch of other presets.
The aim here is clearly not to make a perfect emulaton of the human voice - but a perfect emulation of classic synth instrument's preset filters!
JH. |
For vocal filters i'd love to see the these two Jurgen
- Farfisa Polychrome
- VP-330
These are really the ones i'd love the best.
I think i got acces to schematics of the Polychrome. |
Do you, ore does anybody, have the Polychrome schematics?
JH. |
Jurgen i am gonna pick up the service manual this weekend.
If everything goes fine i will have a pdf made it of the upcoming days at work. |
That's great. Take your time with this - the mail today delivered a huge package, and the most urgent thing for me to do is to build a second prototype of ... but that belongs to another thread.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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ENDIF
Joined: Jul 14, 2006 Posts: 138 Location: Reno, NV
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austrohungaro
Joined: Dec 23, 2006 Posts: 42 Location: Barcelona (Spain)
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:32 am Post subject:
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Please!
Greatest idea!
Your PCB projects are just what I want: Phaser, Solina Chorus, Tau, Frequency Shifter, String Filter... and now that 'greatest hits' FFF!! |
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gavgomad
Joined: Jan 29, 2006 Posts: 69 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:20 am Post subject:
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Just to keep some discussion going on this possible project....
I love this idea! I've been following discussion of a 15x15 MIDI controlled audio router in another forum, and it would seem ideal with this kind of project.... Send a program change, and so long as you have a decent "source" synth, you can capture that eerie magic of a VP-330 or Polymoog, send it to your Triple Chorus / Schulte, and voila!
In terms of the filters I'd love to see, I think the starting point JH has mentioned would be perfect - Vox Humana (Polymoog), VP-330 vocal filter....
I don't have the experience with the Lambda personally to know it's sound, but I trust JHs ears.... ;-P
I think maybe one more "choir"-type filter, and perhaps some "stringer filters".... The Polymoog strings are quite nice, and Vangelis swore by the strings from his VP-330.... Not a replacement for the big string filter planned already, but a more "electronic" variation on the theme....
Gav |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24081 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:03 am Post subject:
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gavgomad wrote: | I've been following discussion of a 15x15 MIDI controlled audio router in another forum, |
Do you have a link? _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Dave Kendall
Joined: May 26, 2007 Posts: 421 Location: England
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