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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:08 am Post subject:
Voltage controlled version of Moog Parametric Equalizer? |
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While asking around about filters to be included into my proposed "famous fixed filters" PCB,
another idea came up, which has caused a lot of resonance so far:
People want a Moog(TM) parametric EQ.
(Moog is the registered trademark of Moog Music. The Moog Parametric EQ was based on a - now expired - patent of Dr. Moog and Norlin. AFAIK)
But just cloning that circuit woud be boring, and would require very special potentiometers.
So why not design something that is even better than the original, while still preserving the original's behaviour?
This leads to the voltage controlled M-Para-EQ.
The PCB would contain the electronics for the EQ, including the voltage controlled frequency sweep.
Everybody has the choice to build it as a voltage controlled device, or just like a "simple" Moog-style parametric EQ.
Options for Frequency control:
(F1) Voltage controlled sweep, either of individual bands, and/or of all bands with one CV. Manaul control of frequencies with ordinary linear potentiometer.
(F2) Manual frequency setting with dual 100k reverse audio taper (-log) potentiometers
(F3) Manual frequency setting with dual 100k audio taper (log) potentiometers.EMS-HiFli style front panel labeling that allows for high frequencies to be on the ccw end of pot.
(F4) 23-position rotary switch (as used in High End Audio Amps) for precise setting and recall of frequency, but without continuous sweep.
(F5) 23-position rotary switch for precice manual frequency setting, plus voltage control for continuous sweep.
Options for Bandwidth control:
(B1) 6-position rotary switch. (You can use a 23-position as well, but that would be overkill, IMO.)
(B2) Build your own special pot from a dual 50k log and a single 500R lin pot, and some adventurous transplantation.
Options for Cut/Boost control:
(G1) Potentiometer (no special type required)
(G2) Rotary switch (11-position or 23-position)
Any combinations of F, B and G options are possible, by just connecting different front panel parts to the same PCB.
Interested?
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:47 am Post subject:
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SOLD! Within reason, I don't CARE about the $$$ |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:02 am Post subject:
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Rykhaard wrote: | SOLD! Within reason, I don't CARE about the $$$ |
Well, you decide how expensive it will be.
You know the price tag of my PCBs.
The electronic components are rather cheap.
The Voltage control part won't be overly expensive, either.
So it's more or less the front panel contros that set the price - and you can choose them. 23-position switches are insanely expensive, but very very nice when you want to recall a specific setting. But most options don't need them, voltage control included.
6-position switches, as recommended for Bandwidth, are cheap.
You can upgrade opamps, of course. (Original has TI RC4558s.)
But you don't have to - that's the benefit of just buying a PCB, and deciding on the components yourself.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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EdisonRex
Site Admin
Joined: Mar 07, 2007 Posts: 4579 Location: London, UK
Audio files: 172
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:54 am Post subject:
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Hmm. That's an interesting project. This was essentially why I bought an extra 6 of Fonik's 2044 boards; I had the idea of building them into a "6 band" lowpass with Fc tracking and offset, and use his VC Q to get bandpass effects. Of course, the 2044 sounds nothing like the Moog Parametric, and having everything on one board would be easier to manage.
One can never have enough kinds of filters. I'd be interested in one board, should it become available. _________________ Garret: It's so retro.
EGM: What does retro mean to you?
Parker: Like, old and outdated.
Home,My Studio,and another view |
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elektro80
Site Admin
Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
Audio files: 14
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:57 am Post subject:
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And one for me too! _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr |
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meir
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 5 Location: israel
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:06 am Post subject:
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i'm in for 5 |
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dar303
Joined: Jul 15, 2007 Posts: 97 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:20 am Post subject:
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I'm in for two!
Will the components fit on a standard eurocard? |
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Clack
Joined: Aug 08, 2005 Posts: 438 Location: Walthamstow - london
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:32 am Post subject:
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is there any examples what it sounds like around on the internet at the moment? _________________ Clacktronics.co.uk |
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toppobrillo
Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:09 am Post subject:
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sounds good... |
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Luka
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1003 Location: Melb.
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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Coriolis
Joined: Apr 11, 2005 Posts: 616 Location: Stilling, Denmark
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:05 am Post subject:
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I'll take 1!
C |
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v-un-v
Janitor
Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 8933 Location: Birmingham, England, UK
Audio files: 11
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:39 am Post subject:
Re: Voltage controlled version of Moog Parametric Equalizer? |
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jhaible wrote: |
Interested?
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Are you serious??
Parametric EQ + Tape Delay + LOTS OF distortion and Feedback = Instant HAWKWIND!!! (Think 'Silver Machine' etc )
Vanilla VCF's are sooooooo boring!!!
Bring it on JH!!
......OMG what have I just said?? I still haven't built anything else yet*
edit; * That should be all those boards I've bought since Ray's Soundlab _________________ ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN. |
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v-un-v
Janitor
Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 8933 Location: Birmingham, England, UK
Audio files: 11
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:44 am Post subject:
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FYI, Andi Toma from 'Mouse on Mars' used the Moog parametric eq to get the MOM bass sound _________________ ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN. |
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Serenadi
Joined: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 89 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:51 am Post subject:
Re: Voltage controlled version of Moog Parametric Equalizer? |
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Yes. Sounds like another great project.
I guess, I'm in too.
jhaible wrote: | (F1) Voltage controlled sweep,... Manaul control of frequencies with ordinary linear potentiometer.
(F2) Manual frequency setting with dual 100k reverse audio taper (-log) potentiometers
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(B1) 6-position rotary switch. (You can use a 23-position as well, but that would be overkill, IMO.) |
Just 2 questions.
Are there significantly differences in manual control between the F1 and the F2 option concerning a comfortable handling?
As you mention a 6-position switch, I think of the inexpensive DP6T switches from Lorlin or C&K.
So I assume a SP12T switch isn't possible, because you have to replace the two pots, right?
What I'd like to see is an insert point on the pcb where one can patch a vca to replace the cut/boost. |
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Peake
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:13 am Post subject:
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I'd have to disagree on this choice, with limitations on my disagreement.
I've had a couple of those over the years, and it's a love/hate thing. You'd have to address many issues, and if you did, it wouldn't end up sounding like the original.
The special character of the unit lies in the bass region. The pre-emph/de-emph circuit causes the treble to be caustic. I know that I've mentioned this in other forums, and expect that you have considered it already.
I am open to hearing what you can come up with, but I don't care for the sound of most modern EQ one whit. I don't like that highly stable resonant character, where increasing resonance has a sine-wave character prior to reaching the actual state of a sine wave. EQ mimics acoustic space. Some modern EQ doesn't sound acoustic. Most modern filters don't sound acoustic.
You can like it or you cannot like it. Shrug. I look forward to hearing what you come up with... |
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Peake
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject:
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Mmmm, thinking back reminds me that the Moog has a fairly wide bandwidth to play with, which is wider than most, several octaves IIRC.
If you can clean it up but not too far, I'd be interested in one, and I don't care about VC. That's just me and I'm only one vote. |
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v-un-v
Janitor
Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 8933 Location: Birmingham, England, UK
Audio files: 11
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject:
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Peake wrote: |
The special character of the unit lies in the bass region. The pre-emph/de-emph circuit causes the treble to be caustic. |
Personally I myself quite like a harsh/ caustic treble, but you're right, it's the bass end that this unit excels in. To be honest a vc-para eq of any kind or sort is a good thing, as there are very few of them about. _________________ ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN. |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Voltage controlled version of Moog Parametric Equalizer? |
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Serenadi wrote: | Yes. Sounds like another great project.
I guess, I'm in too.
jhaible wrote: | (F1) Voltage controlled sweep,... Manaul control of frequencies with ordinary linear potentiometer.
(F2) Manual frequency setting with dual 100k reverse audio taper (-log) potentiometers
...
(B1) 6-position rotary switch. (You can use a 23-position as well, but that would be overkill, IMO.) |
Just 2 questions.
Are there significantly differences in manual control between the F1 and the F2 option concerning a comfortable handling? |
A directly connected pot will either be more precise than voltage control, or you need a considerable amount of trimming.
Quote: | As you mention a 6-position switch, I think of the inexpensive DP6T switches from Lorlin or C&K.
So I assume a SP12T switch isn't possible, because you have to replace the two pots, right? |
There are inexpensive 2P12T switches, that could be used.
But I don't like full 360deg operation for these functions, with the highest value jumping to the lowest. So if you have a 12-position (2pole) switch that you can turn into a 11-position switch, that would be great.
The 23-position rotary switches have 24 positions (15 degree from step to step), with one position disabled mechanically.
For bandwidth, I'd rather have 6 positions on 150 degrees than 12 positions on 360 degrees with "foldback".
But again, this would all be up to you. All these options would be *provided* on one and the same PCB, and *you* decide what you'll connect.
Quote: | What I'd like to see is an insert point on the pcb where one can patch a vca to replace the cut/boost. |
It wouldn't be hard to design such a thing, but IMO it would be too far from the original Moog(TM) topology. I want the signal path to behave exactly as it does in the original, overload behaviour and all included.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject:
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Peake wrote: |
I am open to hearing what you can come up with, but I don't care for the sound of most modern EQ one whit. I don't like that highly stable resonant character, where increasing resonance has a sine-wave character prior to reaching the actual state of a sine wave. EQ mimics acoustic space. Some modern EQ doesn't sound acoustic. Most modern filters don't sound acoustic.
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I don't know if that Moog(TM) EQ is better than modern EQs or not, but I'm sure that if you and anyone else is buying a PCB for a Moog inpired EQ, you want it to sound like the original. Everyone who wants an "ideal" EQ without side effects, will probably use a plug-in anyway, nowadays.
No, if I'm going for the behaviour of a Moog, i will take care that it will actually behave like a Moog. Everything else will just be _added_.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:14 pm Post subject:
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loss1234 wrote: | i will want one for sure. are there any rare parts involved?
thanks |
Only the potentiometers.
Thus the options as described.
If you wanted to clone the original, you'd need dual potentiometers with two completely different carbon tracks in it's two compartments.
You *can* diy such a thing, but you also have other options.
The electronics are just cheap standard components, from what I can see so far.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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austrohungaro
Joined: Dec 23, 2006 Posts: 42 Location: Barcelona (Spain)
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject:
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Me too!
I will order one.
But, jürgen... how many different PCB projects are you on ??
I WANT THEM ALL
...and I want them soon... |
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Peake
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject:
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jhaible wrote: | The electronics are just cheap standard components, from what I can see so far.
JH. |
For the price of a few bands of this knowing that the parts aren't rare, I'd be in for one (and likely change the treble band to do something between the bass and mid). Huzzah! |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:13 am Post subject:
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austrohungaro wrote: | Me too!
But, jürgen... how many different PCB projects are you on ??
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Well.
Don't expect them to come in rapid succession. But I have to find out now what I'll offer next year.
I plan to continue rolling out pcbs until you all get tired of it.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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Sebo
Joined: Apr 27, 2007 Posts: 564 Location: Argentina
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:33 am Post subject:
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Hi:
I would like one, may be more, depends on what going to cost.
I want to have some nice parametric EQ's, non really interested in
VC, if someone knows of other good DIY parametric EQ, please
tell me.
Thank you. _________________ Sebo
---------------------------------------
My Music:
https://www.facebook.com/cosaquitos/ |
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