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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Modular Synthesis
Doepfer/Analogue Systems ? which VCO's ?
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
Posts: 2575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SynthBaron wrote:
Reguarding the Plan B's pulse width, mine also had a very limited front panel range. Peter says that this is because it can be modulated farther than 0 and 100% width


Sounds like the sawtooth level is low.
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SynthBaron



Joined: Oct 21, 2006
Posts: 20
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

But it's a triangle core oscillator?
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Beermaster



Joined: Oct 22, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have ten A-Sys VCOs in my system - the Sine waves on them are ok - I tend to use the Multimode filters in Self Osc for Sine when I need them tho.
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SynthBaron wrote:
But it's a triangle core oscillator?


OK then, so one or both of the triangle or sawtooth waves is low, depending on which one drives the rectangle wave comparator.
The width pot most likely produces +/- 5V so if the wave in is the same, the pots full rotation should go from 0-100% or 50-100% if the width pot is positive only.
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SynthBaron



Joined: Oct 21, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Beermaster wrote:
I tend to use the Multimode filters in Self Osc for Sine when I need them tho.


How well do they track? I'm looking for the best one in Eurorack.
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bubblechamber



Joined: Nov 04, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the Plan B is a triangel wave.
the Doepfer Hi end uses a CEM3340 chip, the same one from a lot of synths in the 80's.
the Doepfer soft sync is syncing to the trailing eged of the wave, not the front like everything else.
if you looking for something to make more abstract stuff you might want to look into livewire's stuff

http://www.livewire-synthesizers.com/forums.html?op=modulators&module=vulcan
and
http://www.livewire-synthesizers.com/forums.html?op=modulators&module=dalek
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elemental



Joined: Apr 29, 2007
Posts: 12
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SynthBaron wrote:
Beermaster wrote:
I tend to use the Multimode filters in Self Osc for Sine when I need them tho.


How well do they track? I'm looking for the best one in Eurorack.


I'm also looking for something to fit the bill here...
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Patchmouse



Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 140
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:32 am    Post subject: Slow progress
Subject description: Second-hand modules ?
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This whole thing is taking ages, I seem to be in the middle of a distinct lack of second-hand Doepfer modules, and if they are available people want the earth for them., or want to sell you a complete system. I've almost given up on this project now, as it seems to be taking for ever. Also I have to weigh up the balance of my recent software purchases against spending £1,000 GBP plus on modules, to produce similar sounds. I know analogue is analogue, and this a pointless argument, but the cost is becoming more and more restrictive.

Take care,

Patchmouse.
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Per



Joined: Jun 09, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Take a look at analoguehaven. They have a lot of 2nd hand modules, most of them are Doepfer. I have bought goods from them for shipping to Europe without any problems.
Per
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Patchmouse



Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 11:55 pm    Post subject: Doepfer Modules
Subject description: Doepfer Modules
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Hi. thanks, I'll give them a look, hopefully the exchange rate will make this option a lot more favorable.

Take care,

Patchmouse.
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Grizzle



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have the Cwejman and A-111 Hi End Osc...

I think I prefer the Cwejman or at least I tend to use it much more often than the Doepfer. I got the Doepfer because it has Linear FM but I have not used that much really. The handiest thing on the Doepfer is probably the Octave switch. I use the Doepfer more when I'm using 3 osc's in a patch so the octave switch is real handy then.

Also, all the waveshapes are available at once on the Doepfer but only +/- of one shape are available on the Cwejman.

Did you see the YouTube vid of the Plan B Osc doing hard Sync.

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REwire



Joined: Dec 06, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I started with two AS RS-95 Oscs than to a Plan-B Model 15, Doepfer A-111 and finally a Cwejman VCO2RM. The AS OSC's were sold long ago because I hated the one tuning knob then the A-111 . I found the A111 the most boring of them and a low output level.

Last week I went by Big City Music and saw a AS system being tested with the new RS-95E. The new dial tuning was intriguing and I saw something I forgot I missed - the waveshaper on the Saw and sine. Holy smokes, none of the others have this (Model 15 is a morph from saw to pulse to sin I never liked). I bought it right then.

Only the Doepfer and Cwejman actually have a PWM attenuator, AS and Plan-B don't. This may come from the reason that ASys LFO's have attenuators at the output as opposed to Doepfer which don't.

I find the Plan-B and Asys to be almost identical sounding. Asys' advantage is it's waveshaping and smaller size. Plan-B's advantage is it's three CV inputs plus FM where the Asys has just two and no linear FM. The Cwejman is the higest output, highest sizzle and most CV'able of them all. Not as fat as the Plan-B and Asys but I'd keep that if I could only have one.

As for the standard Doepfer OSC, I wouldn't even use that as a space filler.

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Jari Jokinen



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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

REwire wrote:
...AS system being tested with the new RS-95E. The new dial tuning was intriguing and I saw something I forgot I missed - the waveshaper on the Saw and sine. Holy smokes, none of the others have this

How do you like the sound of the waveshaper?

Best regards
Jari Jokinen
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elemental



Joined: Apr 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've had my new modular system just over 2 weeks now, with 2 ASys RS95E oscillators.

I have had a lot of fun using one to modulate the waveshape of the other, really nice mellow FM style sounds. Havent used the waveshaping on a slow modulation yet tho .. sounds more like a basic low pass filter like that.

Glad I chose the RS95E now! Next wil either be Plan B, or if i'm feeling rich the Zeroscillator...
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Grizzle



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I went up yesterday and had a mess about with the Linear FM to try and get some juice from it...

Although it can do some nice things a lot of subtlety is lost that you would find on a regular FM synth. All the samples below are the A-111 on its own doing Linear FM. Although it sounds good I didn't feel satisfied when using it... I like the subtle little harmonics in FM but in the A-111 it seems to be either on/or off. There are levels of on but to my ears the modulation starts quite high.

I tried to make the amp level of the modulator sensitive to velocity by running it to a VCA first but it didn't seem to generate the effect I was after. Possibly I got it wrong.

Anyways most of theses are just an 8 step seq. with some slew and linear FM. I used the A-121 multimode filter on LP12.


Linear FM A-111 Osc Seq.mp3
 Description:
A-111 Linear FM 8step Seq and Slew A

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 Filename:  Linear FM A-111 Osc Seq.mp3
 Filesize:  535.82 KB
 Downloaded:  310 Time(s)


Linear FM A-111 Osc Seq C.mp3
 Description:
A-111 Linear FM 8step Seq and Slew A

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 Filename:  Linear FM A-111 Osc Seq C.mp3
 Filesize:  682.76 KB
 Downloaded:  244 Time(s)


Linear FM A-111 Osc Distorted Bass.mp3
 Description:
Distorted FM Bass

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 Filename:  Linear FM A-111 Osc Distorted Bass.mp3
 Filesize:  161.94 KB
 Downloaded:  220 Time(s)


Linear FM A-111 Osc Seq B.mp3
 Description:
A-111 Linear FM 8step Seq and Slew with a fair amount of reverb.

Download
 Filename:  Linear FM A-111 Osc Seq B.mp3
 Filesize:  845.21 KB
 Downloaded:  221 Time(s)


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Alex Omega



Joined: Jan 24, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

REwire wrote:

I find the Plan-B and Asys to be almost identical sounding. Asys' advantage is it's waveshaping and smaller size. Plan-B's advantage is it's three CV inputs plus FM where the Asys has just two and no linear FM. The Cwejman is the higest output, highest sizzle and most CV'able of them all. Not as fat as the Plan-B and Asys but I'd keep that if I could only have one.

As for the standard Doepfer OSC, I wouldn't even use that as a space filler.


Very interesting!

I'm about to buy Plan B B15's or 1 RS-95&RS-95e...

I think the Plan B's are little bit over budget so i guess is will be the RS-95&RS-95e combo...

or is it smarter to buy 2 RS-95e's? I guess 1 10-turn dial is enough.
(this is my first modular btw)


FYI
As far I got these: Cwejman MMF-1, ADSR-vc2
Doepfer: A-145 LFO,A-138 exp MIxer,A-131 vca

And now the VCO's.

Maybe anyone can give me some advice

Idea

thx,

Alex
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elemental



Joined: Apr 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have 2 RS95e in my system. Do the job pretty nicely. The FM sounds really good, although I would like to hear what the linear FM on the Plan B sounds like. Its quite hard keeping FM sounds in tune. (I'd love to try a zeroscillator for that reason...) The osc sync is nice aswell. And the waveshaping options are great for tweaking sounds, basically acts like a lowpass on the waveform. The sine shaping is nice but very subtle.

I def feel like I made the right choice, for a starter system - although I dont have much to compare it to! I do have a modified 202 so I can use the oscillators from that, very different sound. There is something about the 202/101 sub oscillator square wave that I just love for bass.
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Beermaster



Joined: Oct 22, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

To go back to an earlier point regarding using A-Sys cases for other makes of Euro style modules I have to say that on the whole I've just populated most of the Cwejman catalogue and the Livewire catalogue and most of the Plan B Catalogue of modules in to A-Sys cabs with with out many problems ( considering the number of modules I was fitting )

All of the Cwejman modules fit and work with the Keyed connectors perfectly as is - no changes. Likewise the Doepfer modules.

The problem with the the connectors on some of the PLan B and the Livewire gear is that the keyed connectors are not consistently the right way round !
( something I found to my horror after the event ) The red line on the power cable is correct to the right terminal on the boards BUT often the connector at the end that goes to the power rails is the wrong way around.

Its not a consistent thing tho and thats where I had my problems: 3 out of 5 Plan B VCOs were wired correctly to work with the A-Sys cabs - two were not. Out of ten Livewire modules 8 were wired correctly and 2 not.

I didn't know that there were issues with these connectors until after the events - It made total sense to me to trust the keyed connectors and assume that they were made for a reason - which when you're populating many cabinets with limited access space to see and connectors that are very short you do trust that the keys should be fit as is.

My question really is this - If these modules are made to be only used in Doepfer cases ( which don't use keyed sockets ) then why are manufacturers using keyed connectors ? but not bothering to check that these connectors are consistently aligned ? ( Key to the left, red line to the top )

As Doepfer and A-Sys are the main people to make cases for these modules doesn't it make sense to align the keys so as to work with the ONE brand that makes use of them ? !
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REwire



Joined: Dec 06, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Beermaster wrote:
My question really is this - If these modules are made to be only used in Doepfer cases ( which don't use keyed sockets ) then why are manufacturers using keyed connectors ? but not bothering to check that these connectors are consistently aligned ? ( Key to the left, red line to the top )

As Doepfer and A-Sys are the main people to make cases for these modules doesn't it make sense to align the keys so as to work with the ONE brand that makes use of them ? !


That issue has confused me from the get go. I have three ASys Cabs and one Doepfer. I too have found Livewire and Plan-B to be hit and miss with the keyed connectors. My solution has been to get a Doepfer Power Bus Board and lay it at the bottom of my ASys cabs and plug all non (Doepfer and Cwejman) into that and also increase number of power connectors. ASolutions also has this problem with the keys, now there's Harvestman and MFB. I'm just following the stripe which seems to work well, forgetting the key. I think some of these mfg's are buying connectors and not paying attention to where the key is. They don't need to acknowledge ASys cabs if they don't want to and I don't expect them to.

Oh, on topic, my earlier post was wrong. I sold my Cwejman OSC. I was using only one of it's oscs and my D-LFO could double as an osc and I use that if I want that sound. I now have an MFB Triple DCO there. It's pretty thick sounding. A good blend with my ASys, Plan-B, Buchla 259, Steiner Microcon and Blacet Miniwave. Soon, the Livewire AFG.

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flts



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I didn't want to start a new thread about this so let's bump this up, hope you all won't mind.

I've been toying with the idea of building a little eurorack modular as a sound source, probably to a Doepfer suitcase if I find one used or decide to get ripped off considering the price of a new one. I have done quite a bit of reading and listening and have kind of a plan / want list of initial things I'm slowly going to start with, but I'm having a really hard time deciding about the VCOs. Ideally, I'd like to start with something that tracks reasonably well over a span of more than an octave or two (going to use a lot as a playable monosynth instead of just zips and glides and general mayhem) and sounds more "vintage" and fat (sorry, PHat) than really clean and modern - if that gives you any idea at all.

What I've gathered so far:
- Doepfer low-end: not worth it at all judging by comments and sound examples
- Doepfer high-end / CEM-based: haven't heard it, apparently tracks and stays in tune damn well but nobody seems to be amazingly impressed by the sound...
- ASys RS95e: mixed reviews, seems quite flexible too.
- Plan B model 15: lots of compliments about the sound, but a bit more expensive and several people on various lists / forums seem to have voiced concerns about uneven build quality and problems with tracking or tuning. Edit: let me add, I am well aware that for every complaining person there's probably dozens that have no problems with these and I'm in no way ruling these out. I'm just a bit cautious since there have been more than one or two people complaining about those issues.
- MFB triple DCO: sounds fun but not really what I'm looking right now
- Cwejman VCO-2RM: amazing build quality but probably too "modern" and clear sounding for me judging by what I've heard and read
- The Livewire VCO will most probably be awesome but it's going to take a while and probably have quite a waiting list...

One thing I've heard no comments of whatsoever are Analog Solutions (not Systems) VCOs: VCO-SUB / VCO-RM. Couldn't even find any reviews or sound examples by Googling around. They seem kind of cheap and no-frills but I don't know how well they track, stay in tune and how they sound. Any experiences?

Any other ideas?
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