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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Stanley Lunetta - This topic was the first one - Wow!
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Want to see schematics?
Yes, I want to build a Lunetta myself
86%
 86%  [ 66 ]
Yes, but I'm just curious; probably won't build
10%
 10%  [ 8 ]
No, spare Mosc the work of remembering.
2%
 2%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 76

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sdcurtin



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:03 pm    Post subject: Stanley Lunetta - This topic was the first one - Wow!
Subject description: information requested
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Hi Howard-

Welcome to MySpace, from that other Mills MFA. I saw in your MySpace blurb that Stanley Lunetta was your mentor and that you worked on a digital synthesizer with him- can you say more about this? He's one of the more interesting instrument builders out there.

Thanks,
Steve C
curtin.emf.org
myspace/stevencurtin


[added poll - mosc Feb 10,2008]

Subject changed by mosc - july 14, 2011
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blue hell
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For as long as Howard doesn't kick in ... there are some posts here on the forum mentioning Lunetta, you'll find them using the search function. To me those have been interesting.
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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry, I didn't see this.

Stan taught us about the joy of the surplus electronics stores, and he was into building really simple digital circuits that clocked at audio rates. For example, you make simple oscillators using digital inverters with RC networks. If you uses NAND gates instead of inverters, you get some sort of neat modulation when you hook up another oscillator to one of the free gate inputs. Run the osc into a modulo-N converter and you can get different pitches based on the code you put on the four inputs.

All these simple circuits, usually just one "naked" IC, are hooked up to banna jacks so you can make patches.

Shift registers were used a lot as were up/down counters, filp flops, and whatever we could find in the surpluss stores. We started with RTL, moved to TTL and then CMOS. Experimentation was the only rule.

Stan was always miffed that we called these instruments Lunettas. He said he felt honored, but he really wasn't the designer of them. He's great attitude made us want to call them Lunettas even more.

Most Lunettas probably don't exist any more because by their very nature they were never finished, but I still have mine. This was one of the fancy ones, included a lot of lights - means buffers - and even had built in stereo amp. Woo woo... Laughing


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Mosc's Lunetta - circa 1971
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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Any way you could share some of the circuit schematics with us? It sounds fascinating.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Schematics?

We ain't got no stinkin' schematics!


I'll be glad to post something in more detail in the DIY forum if people are sincerely interested. I'd have to draw all the circuits from memory, but they are so very simple it will be easy. Maybe, I'll move this to the DIY forum and see if there is any interest.

Maybe some of the better designers here will get in the spirit of this once they see how it works. The possibilities are pretty unlimited.

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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That would be wonderful!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fill in the poll at the top of this topic to motivate me. I'd like to see people start building these things. Maybe we could eventually motivate Stan Lunetta to chime in.
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GlassX



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know about building, but I'll probably breadboard some stuff - I have a profound love for simple circuits made with simple parts.

And I'm really curious about this part: "Shift registers were used a lot as were up/down counters, filp flops"... this got my mind thinkin already!!!
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23isgood



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm very interested. The second I saw that box with all those bananas and led's and stuff, I was instantly intrigued. Please share the build info.

thanks
pete

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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, as of now, already 5 people said they were interested in building a Lunetta. That's splendid! That's enough for me.
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RF



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome, Mosc!
I look forward to seeing and building some of these circuits.
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Clack



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Its quite hard to understand exactly what it involves, but it sounds interesting.

what kinds of things did you used to do with it?

did you ever record it?

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Alienation



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds interesting, would like to learn more about these. Cool
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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc,

would be greatful for your notes and rememberances.

from yr initial description, sounds similar to much of what Nic Collins presented in Handmade Electronic Music, and simlarly here. have you seen Nic's book?

at any rate, this is fertile ground. my breadboard's all warmed up, and i'm very much looking forward to seeing your examples and following along at home...

best
bbob
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This sounds awesome! Very Happy

I've got lots of digital ICs that I don't know what do do with. Cool

EDIT: I'm also a great fan of surplus stores, dumpster diving and using things I have at home Smile

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm damn excited by this thread! I'd not heard of Lunetta before, but the picture of Mosc's old system makes me smile! A lot!

I just checked through some old bags of CMOS chips I got off Ebay a while back and have several shift registers - 4014 and 4015 - and a bunch of other things to investigate.

The idea of just throwing things together as quickly as possible (obviously with some background reading / preparation!!) is really inspiring. I reckon a system based around 4000 series logic could be so damn good.

It'd be quite good to have some standardised inputs and outputs for such a system, right? Maybe a stack of comparators (with negative voltage protection etc) on the inputs so you can patch whatever LFOs etc in and then some buffers on the outputs...

Darn, I kind of need to prevent myself getting sidetracked by all the possibilities that this thread throws up! But I did get time to whip out a little schem for a module using the trusty 40106 chip.

Mosc - is this the kind of spirit????


Lunetta_ClockGenerator40106_byBugs.jpg
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Here's a simple little sketch for some clock generators -- you can, of course, make up to 6 super-simple oscs from a 40106, but I've chosen to show some interesting little extras. Try 'em out!
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Tim Servo



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Stanley Lunetta Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This looks like a fun thread. There's a LOT of fun sounds to be found in simple digital CMOS circuits. Another place to look for inspiration would be the Forrest Mims/Radio Shack "Engineer's Notebook" series.
http://www.amazon.com/Forrest-Mims-Engineers-Notebook/dp/1878707035

http://www.forrestmims.com/

And if you go to the Radio Shack site and look at their Electronics Learning Lab (which looks like it might be a great starting point for newbies), you can download the "Owner's Manual" (containing MANY circuits and breadboard layouts) for free!
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102913&cp

And while you're at it, check out Forrest Mims' personal site (just for grins)
http://www.forrestmims.org/

FINALLY, ONE THING TO REMEMBER ABOUT CMOS LOGIC CHIPS: ALL INPUTS MUST BE CONNECTED TO GND OR +V. DO NOT LEAVE CMOS INPUTS UNCONNECTED OR "FLOATING" AS THIS MAY DAMAGE THE CHIP!!

Sorry for the ALL CAPS, but this is a common mistake when dealing with logic-based sound gizmos. Sometimes it fries the chip, and sometimes it just makes the circuit misbehave and then you spend/waste all sorts of time trying to figure out what the heck went wrong.

Looking forward to seeing some illogical logic from all the new Lunettatics out there!


Tim (Lunettatics... get it?) Servo
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, this is exactly the spirit. Lunettas are more about spirit that the actual circuits. So, I'm committed to going ahead with this thread. Since this is a sub-forum, I request that people start new topics when there is a new idea or question so people how newly come across this later will be better able to make sense out of what is happening.

To be sure, anything goes here. Bugs post about the digital oscillator is choice, IMHO. Those little OSCs are perfect. I'm going to start a new topic about OSCs and we can post designs there. I'll move Bugs topic there. I think once you guys get the spirit of this, then there won't be too much for me to do.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Stanley Lunetta Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim Servo wrote:


FINALLY, ONE THING TO REMEMBER ABOUT CMOS LOGIC CHIPS: ALL INPUTS MUST BE CONNECTED TO GND OR +V. DO NOT LEAVE CMOS INPUTS UNCONNECTED OR "FLOATING" AS THIS MAY DAMAGE THE CHIP!!

Sorry for the ALL CAPS, but this is a common mistake when dealing with logic-based sound gizmos. Sometimes it fries the chip, and sometimes it just makes the circuit misbehave and then you spend/waste all sorts of time trying to figure out what the heck went wrong.


Tim (Lunettatics... get it?) Servo


Very good point Tim
would std procedure around this be to have a pull-up or pull-down resistor, say 100K, on each input?
Mosc wrote they moved from TTL to CMOS, was there some problem with TTL? ...asks Andrew who has over 1000 TTL chips rusting away in the cupboard and would love to use them for something!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A link to Stanley Lunetta's Moosack machine : http://www.ubu.com/sound/source.html (nr 8, but there are some more classics there!). It does sound like coming from a Lunetta to me Very Happy
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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some more links :

http://www.o-art.org/history/50s&_60s/DavisScene/StanLunneta/Lunetta60s.html

http://www.o-art.org/history/70's/Composers/Lunetta70s.html

http://www.o-art.org/history/50s&_60s/DavisScene/StanLunneta/MoosackMach..html

http://www.o-art.org/history/50s&_60s/DavisScene/StanLunneta/AMRA_ARMA.html

http://stang.donnerparty.net/stang/

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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danielwarner



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Maybe we could eventually motivate Stan Lunetta to chime in.


Hey, that'd be great! I just checked out his website and it looks like he's very active in the Sacramento area. Looking at his sculptures, I'm pretty sure I've seen one first hand, at the Crocker Art Museum there was this sculpture with a toggle switch with a spring return, you'd flip it and it would play a pre-recorded cat mew.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
LM: How does your self relate to a machine?

SL: Hmmm. I don't know. I'd like to be a cyborg. I built a series of helmets for Amra Arma. When we perform we do a whole rite. It doesn't make sense for Amra Arma to perform music as music, because what we do is concerned with more than just music. Consequently we don't walk out and bow and wear tuxedos. There are some costumes, lighting, a fog machine--it's like some sort of a weird modernistic pagan rite. So to walk out and play an electronic music machine would make no sense at all. So my performance attire is integral with what it does. I couldn't perform in any other way. The original helmet looked something like a welder's mask, with lights on it and controls that went to the machine. The second helmet was more elaborate. It has tongue-activated keyboards inside. It's a whole different approach to performing. Instead of standing in front of the Machine like a scientist, I'm more like a priest calling on some sort of weird deity.


certainly an interesting fellow.


so am i missing something here. are there any firm "rules", is this ONLY logic / digital based? so even if we can get voltage control or shaping or something else that would cross the line? but then you also posted an analog ringmod, so i'm lost. also apparently things like LDR's are fine?

unless the goal is just simplicity. period.


steven
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The way I see it,
It's about making a box which makes it easy for anyone to play with patching various simple building blocks (mostly digital) into a complex sound generator. Sort of a "200 in 1 Electronic Music Project Kit". Of course the more robust and "foolproof" the better. So it needs to include protection from potentially damaging patch options. Some kind of graphic layout for the "modules" would be helpful too, but not mandatory. Lots of LEDs which show the state of the "nodes" would be cool. It follows that being able to switch the osc/clocks between audio and LFO rates would be good for experimenting and/or understanding what was going on.
Is that the tree to be barking up Howard? Very Happy

BTW So it would be feasable that there could be a "standard" Lunetta device, or a standard "collection" of blocks in a Lunetta device, and then people could swap "patches".

BTBTW Some well designed input and output blocks would enable the Lunetta device to be patched into any modular synth. A way of doing digital micro engineering of a modular patch.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just thought of a section which could be an R/2R DAC.
"Okay, we take that bit there, that can be the MSB. Now this bit here, (patch, patch) that can be our LSB. Okay, now we take these outputs off those two shift registers, they can be bits 2, 3 and 5. And bit 4 can be the output of this LDR controlled Oscillator."
Man, this could be hella fun! Very Happy Cool

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