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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Oscillators
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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:32 am    Post subject: Oscillators Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The core of any Lunetta system are the oscillators. Lunettas use only square wave oscillators, usually made by very simple logic. Typically, Lunetta oscillators have a relatively limited frequency range - just a couple of octaves - because the circuits are so simple. That is much less of a problem than it seems, because most of the frequency setting is done down stream though various other circuits. Thus, while a good Lunetta oscillator does in fact have a frequency knob, the are used more like clocks than a conventional VCO in an analog modular system.

Bugbrand already posted a nice appropriate Lunetta style oscillator which I'm reposting here to get things started off. (Click on the pic to see it full-sized).

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

This is a good one to start with, The main OSC uses a single inverter with an RC (Resistor Capacitor) network to set the frequency of the OSC. The sync out is a nice bonus with this circuit, but the sync feature is not necessary.

There are other variations of the inverter OSC which I hope people will post here. Also, this topic is a place to post questions and comments about oscillators built with simple logic.

Note, it is possible to use an analog VCO with a Lunetta, but this can present problems with interface circuits. For example, Digital logic likes input swings between 0 V and Vcc.

So, let's see some more oscillators here and questions and discussion.

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bugbrand



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for rearranging that, Howard!

Yup, as I'd said, this is just a design to show some of the possible ideas for simple clocks with the great 40106.

Gotta build one of these myself!

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Pehr



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
For example, you make simple oscillators using digital inverters with RC networks. If you uses NAND gates instead of inverters, you get some sort of neat modulation when you hook up another oscillator to one of the free gate inputs.


Couldn't one use a NOR gate instead and let the extra input act as a mute? Confused That means you could use it as a some kind of VCA, right? turning on and off the OSC? Twisted Evil

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pehr wrote:
Couldn't one use a NOR gate instead and let the extra input act as a mute? Confused That means you could use it as a some kind of VCA, right? turning on and off the OSC? Twisted Evil


Sure or NAND, or X[N]OR, just what you happen to have.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool! Cool

I've got those too Smile

And PPLs and binary counters and 4017s and... Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gated oscillators - yes!

The ideas are flowing already!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pehr wrote:
mosc wrote:
For example, you make simple oscillators using digital inverters with RC networks. If you uses NAND gates instead of inverters, you get some sort of neat modulation when you hook up another oscillator to one of the free gate inputs.


Couldn't one use a NOR gate instead and let the extra input act as a mute? Confused That means you could use it as a some kind of VCA, right? turning on and off the OSC? Twisted Evil


There you go. That's what Lunetta originally came up with. Just use NAND gates. A two input inverting gate makes a great modulator. You can built it into the oscillator, or just patch the oscillator into a two input gate. The other input is the "gate" or "mute" signal. Use two oscillators of different frequencies in you get a neat 50 cent modulator.

Here is a G2 patch that shows how a gate can be used as a modulator. I'll probably start a new topic about this because it is so basic. This patch works with the free G2 demo. I strongly recommend everyone interested in Lunettas try out the G2 demo. It has some basic logic circuits you can use to try things out before breadboarding. I'm not pushing that people buy a G2, but this is a great test bed.


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NAND Demo.pch2
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Demonstates using a NAND gate as a modulator as is done in Lunettas.

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para



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here are a few, common as they are


i know you said square but here is a 4049 tri / sine ( well close enough ) lfo i've used. its not perfect but very usable. using a smaller C1 will get it up into audio range, not sure how well the shape will stay put up there though


a simple as can be 4011 squarewave osc with a fairly good range.


and the all too common 40106 pseudo random square osc


steven


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A 4060 has an internal oscillator and divided outputs. Would make a pretty cool oscillator.

http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/cmos.htm#4060
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:04 pm    Post subject: Oscillators Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The 4060 looks like a fun chip but just remember that it is a ripple counter. This means that the outputs don't all change at the same time, but rather 'cascade' one after the other. Now the time it takes to do this is only milliseconds, but it's enough to bugger up circuits like D/A converters. This may not matter in a Lunetta ("it's a feature, not a bug"), but if the timing of the circuit is critical then you'll want to use a synchronous counter instead.

Tim (buggering up circuits since 1977) Servo
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

widdly wrote:
A 4060 has an internal oscillator and divided outputs. Would make a pretty cool oscillator.

http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/cmos.htm#4060


Yes, that chip is very cool. That page is also a very valuable resource too.

As for glitches, that should be taken as a feature with these things.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you can sneak some triangleish waves from circuits similar to the first one in this thread

you take your audio signal out from the input of the inverter
usually works best if you use a resistor for this
this also works with other logic chips if square waves ever upset you
and of course these triangles dont always like running into other logic afterwards

wiring a cap between the signal and ground to make a passive low pass filter is also a simple way to "smooth out" the signal




and for oscillators derived from nand gates
i have a fondness for wiring the 4 nands in a ring ( so 1 gates 2 gates 3 gates 4 gates 1 ....) the way it slides and jumps frequencies is really something i have yet to hear from other synths oh and you need to wire voltage to one of them to "jump start" it or you can wire inputs to have the nand ring be influenced by other circuits
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, sometimes things take a lot longer than expected... With the first mentions of Lunettas I really thought I'd get a few ideas built up quite quickly, but a month down the line and I've only just completed my first module. Cripes.. (well, actually, I built two of these modules at the same time)

This is a 40106 quad-oscillator bank (along the lines of the schematic at the top of this page) and a 4077 XNOR.

Each Osc has three ranges (low freq to audio) and Oscs 2 & 4 can be sync'd to either Osc1 or Osc3 - the Sync sound is damn cool, but I haven't really tested it yet in lower freq modes...

The Leds are all just low current 3mm hung straight off the outputs via 4k7 resistors..

All seems good so far! Need more modules!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bugbrand wrote:

This is a 40106 quad-oscillator bank (along the lines of the schematic at the top of this page) and a 4077 XNOR.


Splendid! That looks great.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Howard! Now to find some time to play and also to make use of the many CMOS chips that just touched down from Futurlec.... I'm building up quite a backlog already - sheeesh...
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loss1234



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bug-that module makes me want to switch to banana jacks....

are those the jacks from futurlec? and i think mouser carries those knobs but only with a blue line- i love the colors!!!

if you do more modules, please post...these are so inspirational. i got a bunch of cmos chips in the mail and i am currently trying to figure out how to get them set up in a useful scheme.


thanks

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, thanks, I love bananas! (apart from normalisation - that's the one annoyance with 'em) - these all come from Rapid in the UK - the quality of these ones is really good and they're very well priced (also for their stackable plugs) - I don't think the Futurlec ones measure up in terms of quality (though I've not tried them - they look very much like the ones stocked in maplins which I tried once and found to be crap, both in quality and feel). Rapid are a fantastic company and do now do exports - I'm not sure how affordable it is to the US though, especially with the weak dollar... (but I just noticed you can make your shopping cart there in $). Knobs are also from there (again, very good price - I think I sent you the link to 'em a while back?!) - they've got a nice slightly rubbery feel to 'em.

Yeah, I'll certainly post future module details - I've got plenty of ideas brewing - but seems like I'm not now spending 24/7 building stuff as I was much of the past couple of years (y'know, sanity is important!)....

Edit - oh yeah, I'm now generally using water-slide-decals on plain 3mm alu for panels (where previously I'd been engraving anodized panels) because I felt I needed to improve the labeling situation. These are working well for me now. I could post the FrontDesigner file if anyone is interested?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes id love the template AND info on where and what is up with the decals...how they work , where to buy em and etc...i just got a dymo to help with some labelling as my modules dont look so good (see the IKEA THREAD for a new photo of my modulars second rack)


thanks as always

your stuff always looks amazing!!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:55 am    Post subject: QUESTION ABOUT BUGS quad 40106 osc Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey can anyone explain to me the SYNC setup on the BUGBRAND quad osc?

it looks like the SYNC inputs into the OUTPUT of one of the inverters and the input of another through a diode (pins 4/5 and 10/9 of the 40106)

the jack confuses me a little...it connects to a sync source but since its two holes, does it mean that each hole connects to a different sync source?

(jacks like this on schematics always throw me a little)

i know some people have built this here so maybe someone can shed a little light on it. thanks a lot

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i do know that the schematic at the top of the page and the one he used for the above modual are diferent. the above modual uses 2 spst's for the synch. he has the schem on his website for that one. i also get thrown by those weird schematic blocks. i think they are semi open ended, like it could be a switch or jack etc... i could be wrong though?
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loss1234



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh yeah, a switch i hadnt thought of that. but what good does connecting the one to the others OUTPUT do...i wonder.

yeah i WAS talking about the one on BUGS site not the one at the top..mainly because this is the oscillators thread

thanks

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scriptstyle



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i actually breadboarded bugs schemtic today the synch is really cool!!! now to just find exactly what cap sizes to use....
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok so i have been working on a 40106 osc for alittle while now. it is basically a mix of bugs schematic with the sych and synthmongers with the ramp and trigger out. i breadboarded it and it seems that the ramp is super faint now i can barley hear it? i could put up the hand drawn schematic if anyones interested? the only changes are(synthmonger schem) the 1m on the cv in to a 100k the 1m on the atten. pot to a 100k..
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

speaking of (solderless) breadboards... here's a layout for 3 basic 40106 oscillators... for folks just getting started...


Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

substitute pots or photocells for the 3 resistors (between pins 1-2, 3-4, and/or 5-6) for variable variousness.

b

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbob, sweet image, I love those protoboards, I prototype anything low frequency and low power on them. Seeing this thread has inspired me to add Lunettas to the EChucK project - what a great way to reuse classic circuit designs! I need to go read up on prior Lunetta posts, Lunettas are cool!
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