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 Forum index » Discussion » Diversity in electro-music
Women in electro-music: my thoughts, hopes
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bernat



Joined: May 18, 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Columbus, OH

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:44 am    Post subject: Women in electro-music: my thoughts, hopes
Subject description: a brief summary
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I don't want to blame any of the men here for the perceived or real gender inequality in electro or larger society. In fact, I applaud all of you for taking time to post here, for reading what's been written, and having the interest to take time to debate it.

I still think that, for one reason and/or another, there is an inequality in women's participation in electro. I want to attempt to figure out why and I want to try and do something about it. I don't have the audacity to think that through this subforum, we'll solve it and the gender ratio at future events will be 50/50 (or 33/33/33 if that's representative of people who define their gender as "other"). It's not even that I think events need to be 100% equally represented, but I want it to be clear that it's not because of some intentional or unintentional discrimination or "benign societal construct".

I have a love for electronic music or else I wouldn't be here, and I wouldn't have gone to this year's EM event.

I don't think that instead of posting on here I should spend all of my time working on electronic music. I feel that's equivalent to telling me to shut up and get back in the kitchen. (Sure, an electro-music kitchen -- all kitchens should be so lucky.) It's still implying that what we have to say here is invalid and unimportant. I disagree.

I would like to explore women's issues and how they apply in electro. (ex. electro women's fashion)

I would like this subforum to eventually be a place where more women (idealistically many women) feel comfortable and interested in posting.

I'd like to draw more attention to successful/prolific/talented women in electro music (see 'lectro ladies, a list) and if possible, try to get them to come to future E-M events like some have mentioned.

I don't want to use this forum for complaining, for "feeling feelings", for being a man-hating angry bitch, or for hurting anyone and making them feel unwelcome. These are all terrible cliches that I try not to live up to. Feel free to keep me in check.

Anyway, this has included a lot of "I, I, I, me, I". And this subforum obviously isn't about me. It's about you, it's about us, it's about women, and most of all it's about electro!
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bbinkovitz



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Women in electro-music: my thoughts, hopes
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bernat wrote:
an electro-music kitchen -- all kitchens should be so lucky.


let's do this!
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bernat



Joined: May 18, 2007
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Location: Columbus, OH

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Women in electro-music: my thoughts, hopes
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bbinkovitz wrote:
bernat wrote:
an electro-music kitchen -- all kitchens should be so lucky.


let's do this!


sure, my kitchen is mostly for decoration anyway.
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laura woodswalker



Joined: Oct 06, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Women in electro-music: my thoughts, hopes
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bernat wrote:

I still think that, for one reason and/or another, there is an inequality in women's participation in electro. I want to attempt to figure out why and I want to try and do something about it.


I'm the Newest Newbie! Just discovered this forum last week!

I looked at a link to a space music festival and looked at the pix. Wow... it looked like you took the computer room at work and cloned it with the Photoshop Clone stamp & cloned it 100 times over!!! Very Happy In fact it was ALL guys! Not a chick in the pic!! Razz

Of course, me being a Single gal & all that, this is a "Good Thing". Wink

Aside from that... I don't have any other thoughts about gender, except I hope that when I have dumb questions, the Guys will bear with me 'cause I'm new to recording, semi new to guitar, and completely clueless about synths (hoping to buy my first one in a few months).

I am trying to learn as much as I can, but I'm starting at Square One. You see, when I was growing up back in the 50s, Guys were into science & electronics, and Girls were into Home Ec. This is my excuse for not knowing anything. That's my answer for 'inequality in women's participation in electro." Also in Rock, Car fixing, etc.

It's not as bad as it was in the 50s, but it's still there to some degree.

Still, I prefer not to dwell on things like this...it is better to just make music.

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Stanley Pain



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

a lady friend of mine who works for a very well known and respected magazine dealing primarily with music but also fashion and the visual arts (a very trendy publication) made an interesting comment.

"i'm sick of female DJs. i'm not going to bother djing anymore".

what hope then?

i agree with laura that the inequality thing isn't as bad as it used to be, but even the flagging up of gender can create problems. it usually revolves around different feminist groups having VERY different ideas about how the problem should be dealt with. some vague parallels can be made with Martin Luther King's philosophy versus the Nation of Islam vs The Black Panthers in the civil right's movement, or the different socialist factions that were vying for supremacy during the Provisional Government's reign in Russia.

as frustrating as it might be it's worth remembering that "every journey begins with a single step". the advantage that electro music has over, for example, rock music is that it's easier to be "faceless". i've been to raves and danced all night and not even known where the dj booth is, let alone whether i was dancing to a female or male's record bag, or whether those records were produced by men or women.

you go and get your car fixed you can see whether or not it's a man or a woman, rock bands the same. no matter how drunk you get, you still know whether or not Patti Smith is a female performer or male when you go see her live.

a friend of mine came to see my gig tonight (she was disappointed by a catalogue of humiliating errors on my part incidentally...) and she was telling me about her initiative as a building site foreman, trying to get more young women to choose the building trade as a career path.

i have to say i agree with a lot of what Greer has to say about the feminisation of certain industries and how those industries tend to be the ones that have the lowest pay to workload threshold, i.e. the crap jobs.

the right to vote does not equality make as my mother never tires of telling me...

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Nosferatu



Joined: Jul 27, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

del
Last edited by Nosferatu on Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nosferatu wrote:



I do have a question, do female electro musicians have groupies?
If so i wanna be one!

Ah, yes, and a female version of Kraftwerk would be very cool,
sexy and funky at the same time. Cool


You'll have to be patient. Learning the arcana of Audio, electronics, music and synths is very intensive and some of us Ladies have had a lot of roadblocks in our way for a real long time. Such as: being preoccupied with raising children plus maintaining a household plus a job. And/or a guy. (Guys are OK with their hobbies but if you are too into a hobby and not paying attention to them, they get all huffy on you.) The finances went toward stuff like kids' clothing & groceries.

So really us Ladies have to wait until the kids are grown and the husband has dumped us before we have the time to devote to something like this.

So y'all have had about a 20 year head start on me.

Now it's true I was in a womens' bluegrass band back in the 70s. THAT was a political statement. Cool

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SineSurfer



Joined: Jan 19, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well, my last band had 2 ladies: the vocalist and the drummer. working with women is easier, they tend to get to the point and don't show late to rehearsals and there is a plus, if they are cute, a lot more fans go to the concerts Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

And yes, I too wish there where more females into the electronic music scene in general.
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Stanley Pain



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Women in electro-music: my thoughts, hopes
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bernat wrote:
Feel free to keep me in check.


that's enough of that now Wink

it reminds me of what my mother said once, "what women say and mean is usually two different things and you should learn to understand when they're the same".

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Stanley Pain



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SineSurfer wrote:
well, my last band had 2 ladies: the vocalist and the drummer. working with women is easier, they tend to get to the point and don't show late to rehearsals and there is a plus, if they are cute, a lot more fans go to the concerts Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


i've never written or produced any music with a woman, but i have been in bands with them and i have noticed no difference between their behaviour and that of men's on a professional level. maybe that comes from growing up learning classical music... most people i learnt with were girls by an overwhelming majority. this kept me very happy in my teenage years.

i have had ONE rehearsal with my new line up and the bass player happens to be a beautiful blond norwegian lady and this has been remarked upon by many people. for the record, her blond norwegian femininity had nothing to do with the decision.

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Papuna



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh my mistake... okey Smile
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bbinkovitz



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Notacon/Blockparty 2008
Subject description: Just got back... Girls in demoscene.
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So bernat, smokris, and I went to notacon/blockparty this past weekend. They gave project ruori our own room to display the lightflowers exhibit we showed at last year's electro, and there were talks about stuff like circuitbending, wireheading, and other awesome stuff. Since the room with our lightflowers was kept dark to optimize light sensor performance, I was sitting in the dark when some girls came in and, not seeing me I guess, started talking about how they felt weird in a place with so few girls, and they wish there were more girls, or they could find a way to talk more to the other girls who were there, or something. It reminded me of why I volunteered to mod this forum and sort of validated my feeling, that there are girls out there in scenes like this, who also want to find some structured way to communicate and network with other like-minded females.

No real point to this, just something to think about, and a reminder that while it's not necessary for women to see other women doing things to be able to learn to do those things themselves, it really does help.

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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Notacon/Blockparty 2008
Subject description: Just got back... Girls in demoscene.
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bbinkovitz wrote:
Sthere are girls out there in scenes like this, who also want to find some structured way to communicate and network with other like-minded females.

No real point to this, just something to think about, and a reminder that while it's not necessary for women to see other women doing things to be able to learn to do those things themselves, it really does help.


More roadblocks for girls: any women involved in music have to deal with the jealousy of the male musicians' wives!!! How about when a guy tells you "um... if you were a man, it wouldn't be a problem." Perhaps if I wear a bag over my head?

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Wayne Higgins



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The only sucessful bands I have ever been in (successful as in got gigs, recorded something and didn't just sit around and drink beer) were led by a woman. My wife has this thing about female singers (she doesn't like them) but I keep looking for a woman to work with. I mean, if I am doing music and working with a woman, if we don't get work, someone will get suspicious. An alterior view of driving force.
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bbinkovitz



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Notacon/Blockparty 2008
Subject description: Just got back... Girls in demoscene.
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laura woodswalker wrote:
How about when a guy tells you "um... if you were a man, it wouldn't be a problem." Perhaps if I wear a bag over my head?


Yeah, no matter how accepting most people are of women, it still sucks that it's something about you that they have to "accept". Maleness is the norm, and being female is like having some kind of freakish disability. One comment like this per year is enough to make me feel like a permanent interloper.

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This works both ways though, probably the same thing happens in same sex relationships. Heck, if you play with dog A dog B is bound to get jealous and demand attention.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oenyaw wrote:
I mean, if I am doing music and working with a woman, if we don't get work, someone will get suspicious. An alterior view of driving force.


Hmmmm, I'm in a band with a girl and we haven't yet recorded a single note.

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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
Oenyaw wrote:
I mean, if I am doing music and working with a woman, if we don't get work, someone will get suspicious. An alterior view of driving force.


Hmmmm, I'm in a band with a girl and we haven't yet recorded a single note.


Hmm, I'm a girl in a band with another girl & a few guys & the only notes we've recorded are on our own home equipment.

But if the other girl wasn't the lead singer's wife, I dont' know if I would have ever fitted in with this band. Oh yeah and my only other band experience, back in the 70s, was an ALL girl bluegrass band.

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

These days I think home equipment is perfectly fine.

A much larger issue is that our band hasn't written a single note... or played one for that matter. I do think it's pritty much set that I'm playing lead-joypad in it though. It's been like that for almost a year now. I think it's great. :¬)

Did any recordings of your girl-band survive?

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Wayne Higgins



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.myspace.com/gothicplayground
one album on vinyl

Dream Deferred did a demo cd

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liquidpaper



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i think learning really levels the playing field. if you can learn how equipment works, and start building things on your own, it makes things better (it also makes things more enjoyable, because you will have earned the satisfaction of understanding how things work). you'll be better able to relate to men (or anyone) who is interested in persuing the same knowledge, and they will relate to you more. it's similar to getting your car fixed. you show up and they decide they're going to rip you off because your a woman. the only real way to combat this is to learn about cars so you can identify this problem and deal with it efficiently (or just do the repairs yourself). they are wrong to treat you this way, but it's still reality and life ain't fair, so i'm just suggesting what i think is the best option as far as dealing with this sort of problem. ladies, try tinkering around with electronic things if you haven't already. and men, the people who have helped me learn the most about electronics have all been men, so you guys can help solve sexism-related problems too. everyone will benefit from this kind of pooling of ideas.
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