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 Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:02 am Post subject:
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OOPS - correction, Wiimote has a Bluetooth interface, not USB. I can get a computer with bluetooth or a USB/Bluetooth adapter, but that won't convert the Wiimote into a USB HID that ChucK can understand, sigh. Still, there may be some ready-made solution that will work, I will keep looking.
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Inventor
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:13 am Post subject:
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Yep, there's a solution for $80. It's a USB product, a 3D mouse for CAD and games - just secure it to the guitar and run a USB extension cable. Here is the link:
http://www.sandiotechnology.com/forums.html
I'm sure there are others.
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Kassen
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:17 am Post subject:
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| Inventor wrote: | | OOPS - correction, Wiimote has a Bluetooth interface, not USB. I can get a computer with bluetooth or a USB/Bluetooth adapter, but that won't convert the Wiimote into a USB HID that ChucK can understand, sigh. Still, there may be some ready-made solution that will work, I will keep looking. |
You're on a Mac right? Spencer had a alpha version of a direct Wiimote => ChucK implementation on Mac and was planing on generalising it. You may want to beg/bribe/threaten him.
Alternately there are Wiimote => OSC/MIDI programs.
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Kassen
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:20 am Post subject:
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Oh,and also see the recent posts to the list about interpolating those sensors if/when they are noisy. I cooked up a solution that's quite efficient, if I do say so myself. :¬)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:34 am Post subject:
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OOPs, that mouse won't work either, but I found this:
http://www.olimex.com/dev/mod-mma7260q.html
It's a 3-axis accelerometer and a USB interface on a very small little PCB! Just what I was looking for, and smaller than I could make it myself. Sweet.
Oh, and it's under $50 euro including shipping to America. Wow.
This project gets easier and easier the more I think about it.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:58 am Post subject:
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I have found a few more of these products, all at different prices. Some have industrial packaging. They all have one problem, however: They are not set up to act like a joystick. Some come with a development environment or library for a particular compiler, but I don't want to develop my own custom driver software.
I'll keep looking, but so far it looks like I'm back to the A-PAC but now I only need one sensor, so I saved forty bucks. Still have to make a regulator board, though...
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Kassen
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:55 am Post subject:
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ChucK does have mouse support, I don't see why that wouldn't work.
Also, if your Mac has those accelerometers in it? I think ChucK can read those as well, though I don't recommend taping the whole Mac to the guitar... *cough*.
Oh, and did you see this?
http://www.actionxl.com/PC-Motion-Controller/PC-Motion-Controller.htm
That one is no doubt nosy but it's very cheap as well. I wonder where and how you could get it.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:21 am Post subject:
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I had not found that one, Kassen, looks great! It's super-low priced and made for USB so it has the elements needed for this project. I sent an email to them asking for a retailer.
I just got my car from the mechanic, over $1,000 bill, yikes! On my tiny budget that's like a natural disaster struck my checking account! So now all minor project costs, even be they $10 or $20 are temporarily on-hold. That's OK, I'm a patient person and I can get back into some ChucK programming in the mean-time, but things are on hold for now project-wise.
Still, even that delay may be a good thing. I think that we have had a recent emergence of 3-axis accelerometer chips on the market, and manufacturers are finding lots of ways to incorporate them into products. So we should see more commercially available solutions soon - i may not have to build a thing.
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Kassen
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:10 am Post subject:
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Sorry to hear about your car. At least that one is cheap...
I too am expecting a flood of this kind of device to hit the market over the next months. When I went shopping for a joypad with these sensors last week most shopkeepers looked at me like I was crazy but the Wii is now so hip that Sony quickly bolted the functionality on their PS3 joypad and MS is making one for the Xbox as well. The PC market will catch up, maybe around late summer. Once those companies start demanding those parts the price and availability of the parts will improve as well. Small joysticks used to be very expensive as parts, then came along the Playstation and the copy-cats and now you can get sticks like that cheaply as well.
The big issue with interfaces, in my experience, isn't the price of parts or the technological questions but how to map them. That's where most of the work is so a bit more time to think may be cool.
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nescivi
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject:
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There is
wiiosc
at http://www.nescivi.nl/wiiosc
for translating wii data to OSC, it also comes with SuperCollider classes to get started right away;)
By the way, the ADXL330 also takes 5V as far as I know; check the datasheet for the ratings.
I have been running the older (but smaller) brothers for years now on 5V with the Create USB interface.
Chuck will recognise the Create USB Interface, I think, since it shows up as a gaming device. (strange that we never tried, Kas!) |
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject:
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nescivi, thanks for the information. I'm not sure about the supply voltage of the ADXL330, it is listed as having a supply voltage range of 1.8 V to 3.6 V, but then there is an absolute maximum rating of 7V on the supply. The output signals are proportional to the supply voltage, so I imagine that the part could be run at 5V if you wanted to do so. That would further simplify the effort. I'm a little wary of that, though, because of the conflicting information. Oh, the following quote from the datasheet may help.
| Code: | | VS −0.3 V to +7.0 V This is a stress rating only; functional operation of the device at these or any other conditions above those indicated in the operational section of this specification is not implied. |
So apparently they are clarifying that the 7 V absolute maximum rating does not imply that you can run the chip above 3.6 V. I'll stick with a voltage regulator if I go that route.
Nice to see your wiiosc program, I may look into it. Also, I should reexamine the Create USB interface since you mention it works with ChucK.
Fortunately there is plenty of time to consider all the options. I appreciate your help!
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nescivi
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject:
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| If you go by the time schedule you posted in the other thread, I may have developed other options to check out that will be even smaller and wireless.... |
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject:
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| nescivi wrote: | | If you go by the time schedule you posted in the other thread, I may have developed other options to check out that will be even smaller and wireless.... |
That sounds excellent, nescivi! I would be happy to pay you for a prototype if you're already doing what I plan to do, as long as it works with ChucK. Of course as always I would share my ChucK software with you as well.
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Kassen
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:47 am Post subject:
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Sounds really good, Marije!
Let's see what we can get out of it next month, you were going to be 'round, right?
How portable is your Wiimote stuff, BTW? This would be nice to have for ChucK but ChucK tends to prefer cross-platform libraries. personally I feel that Bluetooth and HID are nice things for the OS to sort out but I'm sure Nintendo was too cool to stick to proper standards?
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject:
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| nescivi wrote: | There is
wiiosc
at http://www.nescivi.nl/wiiosc
for translating wii data to OSC, it also comes with SuperCollider classes to get started right away;)
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nescivi, I downloaded the file and tried to compile it by going to the directory and typing "make". I got the following two errors:
wiiosc.c:34:19: lo/lo.h: No such file or directory
wiiosc.c:36:19: cwiid.h: No such file or directory
Followed, naturally, by about 150 lines of error messages propagating from that. I'm guessing that you forgot to put those two header files in the download? Dunno, I dislike compiling software since this always happens to me, but then again that's what community support is for anyway. Suggestions?
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Kassen
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject:
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Did you get the dependencies?
| Quote: | The program needs:
liblo (http://liblo.sourceforge.net)
cwiid (http://abstrakraft.org/cwiid/wiki) (as of version 0.2)
and BlueZ
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That would likely help. If I were Marije I'd also point out that this is meant for Linux, at least I think it is. Some info in the OS would probably be beneficial...
Edit; I'd talk you through it but I don't have a Wiimote so I couldn't be sure I was doing it right either...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject:
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Well, you know, I just realized that I don't have Bluetooth on either machine, so it's a waiting game for now, sigh.
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nescivi
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject:
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yes, it is for linux.
did I forget to mention that in the readme?
oops!
I have not found a cross platform library to access the wii.
hmm. actually, looking it up now:
http://www.wiili.org/forums.html/CWiid
(scroll down to the bottom)
it seems there are...
most of them are Java, some of them not in stagnated development, leaving only two at a quick glance for possible candidates...
I might look into that at a later time for SuperCollider... |
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Kassen
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject:
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| nescivi wrote: | yes, it is for linux.
did I forget to mention that in the readme?
oops!
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I fear that choice isn't as self-evident to some as it is to others. A small note might be useful.... :¬)
| Quote: | , leaving only two at a quick glance for possible candidates...
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I'll look into it.
| Quote: | | I might look into that at a later time for SuperCollider... |
If at all possible I would. Cross-platform-coherency does have a thing or two going for it, I feel... :¬)
Inventor; I imagine that might be a limiting factor, yes.... USB is probably fine too, with a guitar you are likely tied to a wire anyway.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:29 am Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: | | Inventor; I imagine that might be a limiting factor, yes.... USB is probably fine too, with a guitar you are likely tied to a wire anyway. |
You know, the more I think about it, the more I feel that there may be several things I try before it's all over. There's no need to think of this as a one-shot deal, I'll probably make one and it'll work but have some flaws then I'll want to make another, etc.
I should just begin with whatever's easiest, which would be a USB solution, and go from there. As far as dependencies and libraries and compatibility and new advanced features go, I'm not such a software guru that I'm willing to track all that down. I'd rather get out a soldering iron and solve my problems that way. Plus, as you say, Kassen, I'm on a cord anyway, what's another cord going to bother? So for lack of bluetooth and lack of software I'll go the USB route. Should be fine.
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Kassen
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:14 am Post subject:
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I agree that starting by getting the most simple version working is a good idea. Still, the software issues aren't that bad; getting those libraries to compile against shouldn't be so hard at all.
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nescivi
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject:
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| that's a nice and small one! |
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nescivi
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:12 am Post subject:
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Here is the link for the Dimension Engineering ADXL330 board:
http://www.dimensionengineering.com/DE-ACCM3D.htm
By the way, I calmed down a bit and read your README file more closely, you did sort of mention the dependencies but it wasn't overly thoroughly explained what to do. I shy away from dependencies, especially situations like the Perl reuse modules on cpan.org where the term "dependency hell" is used to denote the seemingly never-ending chain of dependencies. Plus I'm on a Mac at the moment and your program is for Linux.
Besides, I'd rather solder my way out of a problem than code my way out!
On a related note, due to car repairs and other unpleasant financial gobbledeygook, I've decided to consider the Behringer USB guitar for $119 rather than the Fender Stratocaster for $399. This way I won't need a soundcard, a guitar amp, or hardly any accessories and I'll save myself about $500 or more. Plus I saw a good video review of the Behringer USB guitar, it's a Fender Stratocaster design only lots cheaper but a good bargain for a beginner. At that price, I'll have no hesitation about removing the USB plate to see if I can squeeze the accelerometer inside of the guitar body. So here's another example where patience has paid off on this project.
Also nescivi, you might want to take a look at the Guitar Note Detection thread in this forum for some info on how my Guitar software interface is shaping up.
Thanks for the link to the SensorWiki, that link didn't work but this one should:
http://www.sensorwiki.org
It looks like a very informative site at first glance, I will have to give it a read.
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