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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject:
useful ways of using AUDIO as CV source??? |
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I am interested in using samples, guitar, vocals etc as way to create a CV or wave (pulse, saw, square,etc) so that the audio can be manipulated BY the synth and also Control or trigger it.
I know about envelope followers, but I am looking for things that either create a tone, or a cv. I was looking at Ray wilsons guitar synth but that pcb is HUGE so id love to find some simpler circuits.
is there an easy way to get a square wave from a guitar or sample?
thanks _________________ -------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle |
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widdly
Joined: Jun 25, 2007 Posts: 268 Location: singapore
G2 patch files: 2
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Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject:
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You can try distortion pedals, in particular fuzz pedals to get a squarish wave. A compression pedal is handy before the fuzz pedal to flatten out the envelope.
You might like to try some of these circuits... http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/snippets.html
Try looking at the "simple square wave shaper made simpler", "Stupid CMOS tricks", and "PWM". It's not going to be HIFI but probably interesting. They all have a tendency to crap out on the ends of notes. Last edited by widdly on Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CJ Miller
Joined: Jan 07, 2007 Posts: 368 Location: 127.0.0.1
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:39 am Post subject:
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I don't have a lot of modules ready for real use, but one of the first boards I successfully built years ago - and which always near my bench - is my combination envelope follower/trigger extractor/gate extractor. They are based on the designs from Barry Klein's book. They are very useful. And then, of course, you can apply any other modifications to the envelope signal... invert, bias, rectify, and any other processing which can be thought of. S&H, T&H. Depending on what audio, a dedicated preamp is also useful.
Amplitude and frequency are mainly what there is to work with here, and of course an amplitude envelope is much easier to do. I've got a few Harry Bissell/EFM/Moog pitch-to-voltage PCBs, but I haven't finished those. P2V seems like a huge design challenge but I figure even errors will still provide fun signals to play with.
Simple samplers /wavetables can be fun to work into a modular setup for waveforms, processing, and include digital domain transforms not available with an analog input. PCM bends, logic-based effects and modulation, etc. These things can all yield fun sounds, and also data which can be used for other musical purposes. |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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Peake
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:28 am Post subject:
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I don't know if there's a schematic out there for the Korg X-11 "guitar synth" but parts of it might prove interesting/useful.
I've heard that some folks have had luck using simple, monophonic tones with the Korg MS20's External Signal Processor, but that it takes work to get it to produce useful results under particular conditions:
http://www.synthdiy.com/show/file/?id=1690 |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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ericcoleridge
Joined: Jan 16, 2007 Posts: 889 Location: NYC
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject:
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loss1234 wrote: | thanks
it sure has a lot of opamps in a row!!
i printed it out...lots of people have being saying its useful. |
You're talking about the MS-20 Processor, right? I think those are schmitt triggers or some kind of CMOS stages, not op-amps.
Incidentally, Tom Gamble wrote on his web site that he had better results using a circuit he designed based on the Korg design, than he did using the Bissel/Moog PCBs. Considering he issued the PCBs, I guess that counts for something.
In addition to the MS-20 and X-911 schems, there was also a dedicated Korg P/V device called the MS-03:
http://www.korganalogue.net/korgms/service/ms03/KorgMS03servicemanual.pdf
This is a great site; all of the Korg MS and PS user+service manuals are here.
I've owned an MS-20 for a while now and, unfortunately, I can't say I'm super impressed with it's P/V capabilities. I've pretty much only tried it with guitar and bass. Barely works at all with bass; with guitar it, it tracks pretty well, but only in the middle of the fret board. |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject:
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we are both right, there are opamps AND cmos inverters. at least that was what i saw at first glance. i need to take some time this week to study that AND what you posted. thanks btw
the EFM P to v, i think i had a thread on here about that recently BUT he specifically stated it wouldnt work for guitar without some pre processing...i wonder if he still has pcbs?
I am very intrigued by the idea that ray wilson is using, which is to somehow get a pulse wave that is at the same frequency as the guitar, which allows for a pulse and a sub ocatve of whatever you play. maybe that idea mixed with the korg idea could be useful? i DONT need precision.
just results in a brute force kind of way!
thanks _________________ -------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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widdly
Joined: Jun 25, 2007 Posts: 268 Location: singapore
G2 patch files: 2
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:18 pm Post subject:
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Lot's of the envelope follower schematics have Gate output. Use the gate output to feed an envelope. Feed the VCO to a VCA and use the envelope to control the output level. Last edited by widdly on Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:49 am Post subject:
SAMPLES |
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OK
here are some samples of my progress up to date
this is the best i can get it for now
i used the PWM circuit from circuit snippets, into the SYNC IN on my ken stone cgs48
i tried using JUST the synth signal in some, and in some XORing the guitar signal AND the synth signal..also adding lfo or sample and hold in some.
Sync is a strange beast though, it seems you cant modulate the vco in the same sort of way you could if it wasnt syncing.
here they are (comments please)
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vco sync 2 gtr2.mp3 |
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490.59 KB |
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gtr sync 1.mp3 |
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420.12 KB |
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1050 Time(s) |
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lfo mod gtr sync.mp3 |
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1094 Time(s) |
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samplehold cv ync gtr.mp3 |
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1045 Time(s) |
_________________ -------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:18 am Post subject:
Re: SAMPLES |
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loss1234 wrote: | OK
here are some samples of my progress up to date
here they are (comments please) |
That fourth one is excellent! The first three sound like just squared-up guitar or something, with harsh edges due to clipping. The fourth one is all rounded off, kind of like a tube amp or something. What did you do different on the fourth one? To paraphrase Meatloaf, In the synthesizer world, "one out of four ain't bad!" _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:28 am Post subject:
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OK
the 4th one was heavily filtered and the filter was being modulated by a sample and hold module.
and i was playing chords i think (power chords)
that last one is more what i will END UP USING this for...stuff that has more of a weird synth sound. but the other three, well they seem to show me that the VCO will sync to squared guitar.
unless (but this is unlikely as i tried it on 2 vcos) the sync is not working and the signal is just bleeding through. but i don think this is the case.
next i will try feeding counters with the signal. _________________ -------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:43 am Post subject:
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loss1234 wrote: | next i will try feeding counters with the signal. |
Cool, keep us posted. _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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CJ Miller
Joined: Jan 07, 2007 Posts: 368 Location: 127.0.0.1
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Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:24 am Post subject:
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loss1234 wrote: | those P to v PCBS you mention, were those one time sales or are they still for sale? |
I bought those PCBs when they were first out, years ago. I have no idea if there are any more, you'd need to ask Tom Gamble or Harry Bissell |
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