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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Windows as a music workstation
What do you suggest windows XP or 2000?
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destroyifyer



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: What do you suggest windows XP or 2000?
Subject description: I need a little help choosing a platform.
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I just ordered a new computer tower.It comes with windows XP. I don't want windows XP, I want windows 2000. I'm thinking about just putting 2000 on there.

Some help here would be good. Does anyone here have operational control over XP? Do I just need to know what I'm doing...or should I just go ahead and throw 2000 on there and forget about it.

Thank you for your time, your help is always appreciated. From, kyle
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Why 2000? It has a lot of quirks when it comes to drivers & media IO.

XP can be tuned pretty well, and if this is a new machine, you should have no problem getting low latencies with larger projects. If it's the interface of XP that throws you, that can be made to look like 2000 with the click of a radio button.

[edit]- check out the "slimming down windows", as well as several other threads in this forum for windows for tips on getting everything you want back.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would definitely recommend XP. It's a fairly straight forward process to lock it down and clean it up. There are numerous very detailed guides to controlling the interface and keeping it lean and mean.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah. XP, tune it, strip it, keep it off-line, there are lots of good guides on this.

Basically what JKS and Uncle said. If you're not comfortable with striping it at least disable the graphical effects and take a broom to the "services" settings. If you can afford to (have a second computer to browse) keep it off-line then disable/delete hogs like virus scanners and fire-walls.

It's actually a pritty nice OS but it needs some care.

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes why not XP? XP is as it stands, is pretty good, and reasonably stable too.

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
There are numerous very detailed guides to controlling the interface and keeping it lean and mean.


You got any good links then Andrew? I want to streamline my copy of XP on my Compaq laptop, and on my XP Bootcamp partition on my Mac too.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-10260.html

lots going on in there...
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
You got any good links then Andrew? I want to streamline my copy of XP on my Compaq laptop, and on my XP Bootcamp partition on my Mac too.


This one,
http://www.tweakguides.com/TGTC.html
It changed my life! Very Happy

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Another thing to consider. Rolling back the operating system to a previous version may cause waranty issues. You also take the chance that drivers for all of your hardware may not be available for Win 2K. I would also recommend sticking with XP and tweaking it to your needs. Eventually, support for an operating system dies away. Win 2K will lose support long before XP if it hasn't already.
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Sam_Zen



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm perfectly content with my toolbox, which I have finetuned to run on W2K. So no reason to change that.

If I reckon the problems I remember coming along on several forums after the introduction of XP, it was mainly
about complicated settings of user rights, and the continuous popping up of all kind of M$ messages.

If using XP, I would advice to add at least the app Tweak UI XP .

Running W2K and sometimes updating apps made in XP-dialog-style almost never caused any problems.

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I haven't actually checked out Tweak UI XP, so I can't give an opinion on that, but I'd definitely steer clear of any application which stays resident after installing. Anything which runs in the background will just hog resources and complicate the streamlining of everything else.
The easiest way to tell how well streamlined an XP setup is (IMHO) is to press Ctrl+Alt+Del and have a look in Task Manager how many processes are running. (bottom left hand corner)

I rate it like this:-
less than 20 Smokin! Very Happy
20 to 25 Nicely tuned machine Smile
25 to 30 Getting there Cool
30 to 35 A bit of bloat Sad
35+ Your CPU and RAM are looking after someone else's agenda! Crying or Very sad

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Danno Gee Ray wrote:
Another thing to consider. Rolling back the operating system to a previous version may cause waranty issues.


Really? Would that actually hold up?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sam_Zen wrote:
it was mainly
about complicated settings of user rights,


But that's a one time thing.

Quote:
and the continuous popping up of all kind of M$ messages.


This is simple; you can only get those messages if there's a process to generate them and they have been turned on at all. By the time I'm done with a XP install neither is true. I forgot where it is but there's a registry setting that simply disables the OS's ability to pop up those messages at all.

Quote:
If using XP, I would advice to add at least the app Tweak UI XP .


I think you can do all of what those programs do yourself with the management of processes and some registry editing and various settings.


Quote:
Running W2K and sometimes updating apps made in XP-dialog-style almost never caused any problems.


Well, if it works for you then go. The main point of XP right now is drivers and stability. If your setup doesn't need any drivers that affect this then W2K could make sense. I have no real oppion on it, I went straight from 98 to XP.

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destroyifyer



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, my computer arrives soon. I was pretty hell-bent on sticking with 2000, but I'm going to go with X.P...

Thanks again, truly appreciated.

From, Kyle
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destroyifyer



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Quote:
35+ Your CPU and RAM are looking after someone else's agenda!


Or, someone else is looking after your agenda if you know what I mean. That's when you have to ctrl+alt+delete your ctrl+alt+deletes...and, uh, leave your web-cam off for god's sake.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so which ones am I going to kill ... I could do without the battery monitor I guess ...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You love it! Wink Laughing
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry Jan, I should have put:-
45+ Beyond help Rolling Eyes

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Sam_Zen



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A nice list, Uncle Krunkus .. I'm obviously smokin' (anyway).
And lately I found a nice free tool for further trimming of the boot : Startuprun at Nirsoft.

Kassen wrote:
you can do all of what those programs do yourself with the management of processes and some registry editing and various settings.

I fully agree. I know my ways too in the meantime.
But if I'm uncertain about someone's skills, I will not quickly advise to poke around in the registry for example.
Talking about unstable. I once made the jump from 3.11 to NT 4.0 ...

2 Blue Hell
If using a laptop a battery monitor is quite useful, so that wouldn't be my first priority to remove.
That's more something like the clock.
If I look at that list I think I see quite some applications of which I suppose they have nothing to do with the boot-process.
Is 'MultiZap' really necessary ? Even FireFox is not part of the OS.
I don't think it's a matter of 'killing' anything, but just remove it from the taskbar at boot.
The programs are still available in some way if you like to activate them on a certain moment later on.
Do you use 'TFricKy.exe' all the time during a daily session ?

Of course services like 'svchost.exe' shouldn't be disabled, because things would go wrong.
But here the fact that there is a duplicate of this one in the list, starts being questionable, and probably could be removed.
Suppose you're working for hours on your set with some wav-files to make some proper mix for example.
What's the purpose of having loaded a browser all that time ?

In fact, when looking at services at startup, it's not only a matter of disabling or not, like in the Ctrl+Alt+Del dialog.
When going to Configuration/System management/Services one is offered 3 options instead of 2.
a) Automatic - it will be loaded at boot.
b) Manual - the service will be loaded on the moment the relevant application is activated.
c) Switched off - No load at all.

So mode b) is a possible escape to drastic decisions, to see if anything still functions well in the order of time.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sam, this is not the boot time list, this is with some software open.

Like multizap is my remote volume control for the sound card on another computer, the apache webserver is used for testing web stuff - I use it often, hh.exe was running because I had the PHP help open. There are four or five processes used for the wireless connection, some four or five for the virus scanner ... the tfncky thingy is used, I need it to brighten and dim the display, it needs to be dimmed at night at brightened during day time .. and that tool in turn needs the TCtrlIoHook thingie.

The various svchosts are running different network tasks, and they are started by windows as needed ... the battery monitor is not that useful for me as I run my laptops mains powered nearly always. I could kill a few others, not that many really.

A lot of this would not be needed for a music workstation that is not connected to the internet and that would be the main optimization thing IMO. Laptops tend to run more processes than workstations anyway, out of the box that is.

On the other hand there is not really a reason to worry too much about a lot of processes running as long as they consume little resources. My main resource hog usually is firefox ... which would not need to be running when making music. Firefox must be restarted every once in a while anyway ...

The other performance bottleneck is the hard disk, especially when it's well filled - keep hard disks empty!

This particular laptop uses no memory sharing for the video card, and that's a very good idea.

To go back to processes ... I'd like to recommend process explorer originally made by sysinternals, and although microsoft took over that company the tools are still available and not altered - it will show you the dependencies between the various running tasks. Like that System started smss which started crss which started winlogon which started services which started apache which started apache etc. It also tells me that on that same laptop there are 707 threads running using 11515 handles, what dll's are used etc.

I could use some tool to manage processes in groups, for instance when I don't need the wireless network I could kill like four or five processes, but once I did I have to think very hard which ones to turn on again to have the wireless link active again .. I could reboot of course, but why not dynamically manage such sets. Sort of hardware profiles, but then for processes and not for devices.

The whole idea of reducing he number of running processes seems to be based on the idea of using the computer for one purpose .. and I don't do that, I write software, I develop web stuff and I make music .. sometimes I need wireless sometimes not and it's just too clumsy now to reconfigure everything when I change my focus .. so I start up more.

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Sam_Zen



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
this is not the boot time list, this is with some software open.

Yep, I already had my doubts about my judgement of that condition.

You describe my main focus on optimization indeed with this :
Quote:
A lot of this would not be needed for a music workstation that is not connected to the internet

Why being connected to some network, while editing a local WAV-file?

Quote:
..seems to be based on the idea of using the computer for one purpose ..

This may be the crux in the differences of taste between users :
Do you want a system which is multi-tasking at every moment, or dedicated to a function from one to the next?

Reducing processes doesn't necessarely would lead to one function by the way. It has more to do with efficiency.
'Elegant programming' as E.W.Dijkstra called it.
Why having an electric drill machine turning all day, in case you want to drill a hole in the wall ?

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