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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Dim D
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What "chipset" would you like to see in a Dim D PCB
Original chips. They are still out there.
76%
 76%  [ 39 ]
Low voltage BBDs - easier to get, probably more noisy. Takes longer to design.
5%
 5%  [ 3 ]
Make a PCB that allows both options. Will be more expensive (more PCB area required!), and will take the longest to design.
13%
 13%  [ 7 ]
Not interested. (Who needs a Dim D? And isn't there another Dim D project on the way?!)
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 51

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3vcos



Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: 106
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Please use the MN300x series and not the low voltage mn 320x series. I've never heard a design I like with the low voltage mn320x bbds.

(and I've got about 30 bbd delay/chorus/flanger fx right now...ya I'm that crazy about all these fx)

The mn3007 need for this are cheap. You can still get them for a couple US dollars each. Don't you only need 2 (and 2 clocks) for the board?
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3vcos wrote:
Please use the MN300x series and not the low voltage mn 320x series. I've never heard a design I like with the low voltage mn320x bbds.

(and I've got about 30 bbd delay/chorus/flanger fx right now...ya I'm that crazy about all these fx)

The mn3007 need for this are cheap. You can still get them for a couple US dollars each. Don't you only need 2 (and 2 clocks) for the board?


Yes. Plus the compander chips.

(I'd used 4 TDA1022's in my first clone because they only have half the number of stages.)

JH.

Now playing: Vangelis: Heaven And Hell

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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3vcos



Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: 106
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah yes, the compander chips as well. None of these are very expensive and even if you did a massive pcb run I don't think it would really even dent the supply of 3007s out there. I think these were the most common of all the panasonic bbds. I've found then in a lot of consumer devices as well as guitar pedals, etc.

Sounds like a fun project jh!



jhaible wrote:

xxx
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guitarfool



Joined: Feb 26, 2007
Posts: 156
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
It could be a good idea to shop for these chips now.
I expect a similar situation as with the TDA1022's and the Triple Chorus (where in the end it turned out there _were_ enough chips, despite our initial fears), but you can never know.

The crucial chips are:

MN3007 (x2)
MN3101 (x2)
NE570 (x2) (or NE571, or SA570, or SA571)

JH.


I got mine. Small Bear just informed me that he has "deep stock" on all of these Very Happy
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Sebo



Joined: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 541
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi:
I found the BBD chips locally, and cheap. But I only found NE571, not
the NE570. I think the 570 are better specs.
Is there a significant difference? Should I buy them from Smal Bear?
Thanks.

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www.myspace.com/cosaquitosenglobo
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sebo wrote:
Hi:
I found the BBD chips locally, and cheap. But I only found NE571, not
the NE570. I think the 570 are better specs.
Is there a significant difference? Should I buy them from Smal Bear?
Thanks.


I'd always use a 570 if I had a choice, but I never had problems with 571's either.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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kokoon



Joined: Jan 09, 2006
Posts: 158
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i guess it's safe to assume you'll be making the clone, right? it's june and the other guy hasn't put anything out yet.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kokoon wrote:
i guess it's safe to assume you'll be making the clone, right? it's june and the other guy hasn't put anything out yet.


And even though I've been a few days early in asking about the state of things, they reply I got was ... unexpected ... and ... well ... it made me wonder why I had waited in the first place.

Anyway - I have received enough mails to convince me to make this happen, so I think I'll go for it.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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keithwin



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 83
Location: uk

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:
Boy did I speak too soon- eBay has gone nuts with cheap 3007s! There are tubes of 20 for $25.00, etc. Here's an example, $3.00 for two.

Shocked


Watch out for those 3007s on ebay, I am still trying to get a refund for some dodgy 726s from that particular seller. They may be good but its a gamble
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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

keithwin wrote:
Peake wrote:
Boy did I speak too soon- eBay has gone nuts with cheap 3007s! There are tubes of 20 for $25.00, etc. Here's an example, $3.00 for two.

Shocked


Watch out for those 3007s on ebay, I am still trying to get a refund for some dodgy 726s from that particular seller. They may be good but its a gamble


Dodgy how?
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keithwin



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:
keithwin wrote:
Peake wrote:
Boy did I speak too soon- eBay has gone nuts with cheap 3007s! There are tubes of 20 for $25.00, etc. Here's an example, $3.00 for two.

Shocked


Watch out for those 3007s on ebay, I am still trying to get a refund for some dodgy 726s from that particular seller. They may be good but its a gamble


Dodgy how?



They didn't work!

I built a 3rd gen minimoog oscillator board and used them in that,
not a sound was heard. I put in some NOS gold legged 726s
and the oscillators all worked perfectly - The 726s from ebay seller
were either faulty or fake. I would be interested if anyone else had
tried them?

Cheers

Keith
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Sebo



Joined: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 541
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Sebo wrote:
Hi:
I found the BBD chips locally, and cheap. But I only found NE571, not
the NE570. I think the 570 are better specs.
Is there a significant difference? Should I buy them from Smal Bear?
Thanks.


I'd always use a 570 if I had a choice, but I never had problems with 571's either.

JH.


Thank you.

_________________
Sebo
---------------------------------------
My Music:
www.cosaquitosenglobo.com.ar
www.myspace.com/cosaquitosenglobo
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loopcycle



Joined: Nov 06, 2006
Posts: 100
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

keithwin wrote:
Peake wrote:
keithwin wrote:
Peake wrote:
Boy did I speak too soon- eBay has gone nuts with cheap 3007s! There are tubes of 20 for $25.00, etc. Here's an example, $3.00 for two.

Shocked


Watch out for those 3007s on ebay, I am still trying to get a refund for some dodgy 726s from that particular seller. They may be good but its a gamble


Dodgy how?



They didn't work!

I built a 3rd gen minimoog oscillator board and used them in that,
not a sound was heard. I put in some NOS gold legged 726s
and the oscillators all worked perfectly - The 726s from ebay seller
were either faulty or fake. I would be interested if anyone else had
tried them?


well, ive received my four mn3007 and four mn3101 ICs from that seller, but i have nothing to test them in at the moment. ill report back later on my success/failure.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A quick notification right from layouting the BBD board:

I'm going to provide patterns for both, the SIL package HA1457, and a DIP package for opamps with internal compensation, so you can build this with the original HA1457W chips, or TL071, or something else.

And even though I'm not convinced the choice of opamps makes much difference at all in this particular circuit, I've just ordered twenty HA1457's from smallbear, just to be able to test a prototype with these.
(Not cheap, these opamps either.)

This is about the BBD board - I may still use just standard opamps for the main board (and Burr brown opamp after the ladder for the Dim T version of course).

JH.

Now playing: Semaja, Hear My Cry

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you for testing this. You never know...
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

another quick update:

The way things are going: On the BBD board, there will be the whole dual delay chain of the Dim D (anti aliasing and restauration filters, companders, pre/deemphasis, BBDs and BBD clocks) and these is room for an extra LFO and audio summing stages.

This means, you'll be able to buy the BBD board as a standalone project for an "ordinary" stereo chorus, too. It will contain a voltage controlled LFO (one CV for rate, one CV for depth), so you can either have full control with two potentiometers, or you can make presets (similar to some Rol@nd synthesizers' chorus) with a set of trimpots and switching between them, and you can control modulation rate and depth with CVs from your modular system or whatever.

The whole board will be fully compatible to the Dim D of course (that's why I'm making it in the first place!) - you'll simply connect it to the Dim D main board. They'll have the same size (160mm x 90mm, like the Tau boards), so you can stack them for putting them behind a modular synth panel. All the original opamps can be used on the BBD board, but you can also use standard DIP package opamps, as described above.

So everything seems to go as intended.

I've chosen the Tau PCB format because it allows you to make a 4-PCB stack for the "Dim D + T". Smile

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dim TD love
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hachiman



Joined: Dec 24, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

what is the suggested cutoff freq and steepness of anti alias / output filters ?
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hachiman wrote:
what is the suggested cutoff freq and steepness of anti alias / output filters ?


Same as in the original.
I made some minor changes in component values to work around odd capacitor values, but I'm painsakingly taking care of keeping the frequency response as it was in the original.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mono-poly wrote:
Dim TD love


Cool

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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hachiman



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well i want to make somesort of custom BBD stage cause I have mn3004 chips and also have some 8th order @ 20khz input & reconstruction filters as ready made modules , with 4x 5532. I'd put under CV control everything and skip the LFO. The T section is very welcome indeed

(nevermind I just found system 100m module 172 uses mn3004)
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gavgomad



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
I've chosen the Tau PCB format because it allows you to make a 4-PCB stack for the "Dim D + T". Smile


Juergen, just a couple of questions (since technically this thread has sort of absorbed the Dim-T thread.... Wink )

Firstly, if we are interested in a Dim-T option but don't have any Tau boards yet, do we need to earmark those with you now, or will there be a new run to accommodate those who want to do the Dim-T? I don't want to miss out on a D+T!! Wink

Secondly, for those of us interested in the Dim-T, it would make sense to be able to use those Tau boards as full blown Tau's when the Dim-T is not in use.... How hard would it be to switch the remaining Tau controls in and out as between the Dimension antiphase presets? This seems more critical to me than switching in the standard LFO on the BBD board for a basic Juno-style chorus, but maybe it would be a matter of setting the destination for the preset antiphase modulator (D or T), and the remaining circuit (D or T) either has the basic LFO with rate and depth (in the case of the Chorus), or the standard panel controls for the two Tau's in the case of the T?

Always looking to milk as much as I can out of each box! Razz

Gav
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

gavgomad wrote:
jhaible wrote:
I've chosen the Tau PCB format because it allows you to make a 4-PCB stack for the "Dim D + T". Smile


Juergen, just a couple of questions (since technically this thread has sort of absorbed the Dim-T thread.... Wink )

Firstly, if we are interested in a Dim-T option but don't have any Tau boards yet, do we need to earmark those with you now, or will there be a new run to accommodate those who want to do the Dim-T? I don't want to miss out on a D+T!! Wink

Secondly, for those of us interested in the Dim-T, it would make sense to be able to use those Tau boards as full blown Tau's when the Dim-T is not in use.... How hard would it be to switch the remaining Tau controls in and out as between the Dimension antiphase presets? This seems more critical to me than switching in the standard LFO on the BBD board for a basic Juno-style chorus, but maybe it would be a matter of setting the destination for the preset antiphase modulator (D or T), and the remaining circuit (D or T) either has the basic LFO with rate and depth (in the case of the Chorus), or the standard panel controls for the two Tau's in the case of the T?

Always looking to milk as much as I can out of each box! Razz

Gav


It's still a big question for me whether to make a dedicated "T" board (with two all pass filters, but omitting all the other stuff), or to just use two partly populated Tau boards.
This depends on the demand for the Dim T version. I'll have to make more demos once I have my own "Dim D + T" and see what resonance it will create.

In any case, you will be able to use two fully assembled Tau Phasers in combination with the Dim Main board (or the Dim D): You turn resonance to zero, mode to vibrato (i.e. all pass filter without dry signal), insert the CVs from the Dim Main board to the two Taus's CV inputs, and thus use the Taus only as VC all pass filters.
You could realize this with send/return jacks on the Dim Main Board side + standalone Taus - or I'm certain you can somehow put everything into one enclosure, provide all the controls for two Taus and do some extensive switching.
I don't know if this will be a more economic version than just buying (and partly populating) tow extra Tau boards, though.

Personally I prefer a dedicated Dim D + T device, but the "modular" concept really gives you all the options.

BTW, as the BBD board needs its own on-board VCLFO (when you use it as a standalone chorus), this means with the Dim Main board and the BBD board, you'll have a full-fledged Dim ension D emulator that has an extra VC LFO as a second moduulation source - which can be added to the preset modulation, which can be disabled, and which can be entirely omitted (no components soldered in) if you don't need it.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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gavgomad



Joined: Jan 29, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
It's still a big question for me whether to make a dedicated "T" board (with two all pass filters, but omitting all the other stuff), or to just use two partly populated Tau boards.
This depends on the demand for the Dim T version. I'll have to make more demos once I have my own "Dim D + T" and see what resonance it will create.


Well, let me be the first to start things resonating.... "BONGGGGG!" Laughing

A dedicated "T" board would be fantastic, leaving three boards - BBD/D, Dimension Main, and T (dual allpass chains) and although I would love to hear some additional samples, your "quick and dirty" example from your first experiments is very impressive! Wink

jhaible wrote:
Personally I prefer a dedicated Dim D + T device, but the "modular" concept really gives you all the options.


My sentiments exactly. Personally, I passed on the Tau as, although a very interesting effect, it was not really "my" sound.... That's why I got the Schulte board! Wink

I would be in for a dedicated "T" board for sure if you're polling! Razz

Gav
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Update

Design of BBD Board finished - file sent to Olimex for prototype PCB.

Dim D Main Board will be designed when BBD board is built and tested.

JH.

Now playing: Gentle Giant, Superstar

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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