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Adam-V
Joined: Jan 29, 2007 Posts: 300 Location: Australia
Audio files: 1
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject:
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Looks pretty good for something that is "low budget". Is that paper artwork glued to aluminium?
Cheers,
Adam-V _________________ Digitalis Effect | Fractured Symmetry (www.spiralsect.com) |
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etaoin
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 761 Location: Utrecht, NL
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject:
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Adam-V wrote: | Looks pretty good for something that is "low budget". Is that paper artwork glued to aluminium? |
Laminated paper glued to 3mm plywood. _________________ http://www.casia.org/modular/ |
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Adam-V
Joined: Jan 29, 2007 Posts: 300 Location: Australia
Audio files: 1
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Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject:
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Cool!!!
Do you get much flexing of the panels when you're patching? _________________ Digitalis Effect | Fractured Symmetry (www.spiralsect.com) |
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etaoin
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 761 Location: Utrecht, NL
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Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject:
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Not a lot. I got more when I used 1mm aluminium. Any aluminium thicker than that is both harder to get and harder to work, so I switched to 3mm plywood. They manage to get three layers into that, so it is reasonably solid, at FracRack sizes anyway. I use an aluminium L-shaped bracket on the back to mount the PCB. The bracket is fixed to the panel with sunken screws, the laminated front just glued over that to hide them.
Biggest problem I had was finding 3.5mm sockets that fitted through a 3mm panel. I tried countless until I ended up with the cheap Kobicon ones from Mouser. _________________ http://www.casia.org/modular/ |
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v-un-v
Janitor
Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 8933 Location: Birmingham, England, UK
Audio files: 11
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:55 am Post subject:
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RF wrote: | here's mine. Just fits on a 2 1/4 by 8 1/2 inch panel.
I left off the fine-tune for the frequency. May have been a bit crowded with it. |
you may live to regret that move. I can understand fully why Ian would have put in that fine tune control. The one thing that gets me about my MS20 is how difficult it is to tune when oscillating. _________________ ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN. |
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RF
Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 1502 Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject:
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I'm fairly new to music synthesis - I've apparently missed a key concept.
Is it the nice sine wave...or having another voice available...?
I've never really understood the attraction of using a filter as an oscillator.
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v-un-v
Janitor
Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 8933 Location: Birmingham, England, UK
Audio files: 11
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject:
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I think it's the nice extra sinewave. Having oscillation on the filter was very useful in budget 1960's modulars like the EMS VCS3. But I think another often overlooked reason was because of the screaming filter feedback, on boxes like the TB-303 so loved by dance music producers in the late 1980's.
But I have an MS20, and the Threeler is based on the MS20 filter design I believe? It is always very hard to get the filter to stay between no oscillation and cone-removing feedback, so fine tune both in feedback and frequency, I think is highly useful. Also don't let us forget that fine tuning is also helpful for microtonal stuff?
I've gotta get myself a threeler kit. (Just need employment! ) _________________ ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN. |
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etaoin
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 761 Location: Utrecht, NL
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject:
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v-un-v wrote: | you may live to regret that move. I can understand fully why Ian would have put in that fine tune control. The one thing that gets me about my MS20 is how difficult it is to tune when oscillating. |
But this is not an MS20...
I find dialing in resonance pretty gradual, even with only the coarse pot.
Quote: | Also don't let us forget that fine tuning is also helpful for microtonal stuff? |
I'm not sure I understand this. Why do you need finer tuning for microtonal stuff? Don't you just tune it perfectly with the trimmers and do smaller amounts of cv? _________________ http://www.casia.org/modular/ |
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etaoin
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 761 Location: Utrecht, NL
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject:
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And as Ian says in the docs, it does track differently in the four modes. So if you want to have accurate tracking every time, you would also need to bring to V/Oct trimmer out, as you would have to recalibrate for every mode. _________________ http://www.casia.org/modular/ |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject:
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RF wrote: | I'm fairly new to music synthesis - I've apparently missed a key concept.
Is it the nice sine wave...or having another voice available...?
I've never really understood the attraction of using a filter as an oscillator.
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Sorry I didn't get to this earlier -- I was out of touch for most of the last week or so. (Is it really true that there are parts of the civilized world that don't have satellite links, or were they just feeding it to me?)
For a traditional filter you want a stable hi-Q response over a wide frequency range for making ringing percussive sounds (etc.), so you get a high-purity sine VCO for nothing just by turning the Q up to the oscillation point. (Remember, many VCO designs do not have a sine shaper.)
The topologies of the Threeler and MS20 are not as stable as (say) a state-variable design, so the hi-Q and sinusoidal oscillation capabilities are somewhat limited. The fine freq control is useful because all the beyond-resonance nonlinear effects are quite sensitive to the relative frequencies of the filter and the driving signal. Scott Stites mentioned this wrt his demos in another thread.
Ian |
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etaoin
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 761 Location: Utrecht, NL
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:24 pm Post subject:
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frijitz wrote: | and the driving signal |
Indeed, that is what I noticed as well. If you turn the input up too much, you lose all oscillation (but you gain a nice overdrive). _________________ http://www.casia.org/modular/ |
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loopcycle
Joined: Nov 06, 2006 Posts: 101 Location: California
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Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:07 am Post subject:
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well, i just built this thing, and i think its probably the most aggressive sounding filter ive got. certain ms-20 characteristics jumped out at me at certain frequencies and modes--then, other times it spit out completely alien noises/chirps'n'twirps at me that the ms-20 has not even thunk of uttering.
anyway, this filter is incredible. it will be a good fun while until i get a hang of its pecularities. thank you ian (and thanks to scott/bridechamber for the killer panel and kit). |
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machine.cuisine
Joined: Jul 20, 2007 Posts: 61 Location: ks
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject:
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A couple of quick questions :
How do I wire up the 2P4T Rotary Switch?
Since I can't find an English 2SA798 Datasheet, how is it placed on the PCB - I'm thinking flat-side (side with writing) facing the middle of the PCB?
How is the Tempco placed on the PCB?
Thanks!
If I can figure out these issues, I should have this baby going tonight...and after hearing Scott Sites demo, I can't wait. |
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etaoin
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 761 Location: Utrecht, NL
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject:
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machine.cuisine wrote: |
Since I can't find an English 2SA798 Datasheet, how is it placed on the PCB - I'm thinking flat-side (side with writing) facing the middle of the PCB?
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It's symmetrical, it doesn't matter.
On mine the tempco is fixed to the side of the 2SA798. I could take a picture but that wouldn't be until tomorrow. _________________ http://www.casia.org/modular/ |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject:
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machine.cuisine wrote: | A couple of quick questions :
How do I wire up the 2P4T Rotary Switch?
Since I can't find an English 2SA798 Datasheet, how is it placed on the PCB - I'm thinking flat-side (side with writing) facing the middle of the PCB?
How is the Tempco placed on the PCB? |
(1) I don't know exactly what your switch looks like physically. You should see two identical sections, each with four terminals next to each other and a separate fifth terminal. The switch is wired off of J2. The fifth terminals are where A0 and A1 are connected. The others are connected to either V+ or ground as indicated on the schematic. The order on the switch is the same as the order on the schematic. Let me know if this isn't clear -- we can make you a picture if necessary.
(2) Either way around.
(3) Solder it into the R36A position indicated on the stuffing diagram. Leave the leads long enough to reach to the 798. Bend the leads so the tempco is along the side of the 798. Glue it in place for best results, although this isn't critical.
Thanks for your interest, and don't hesitate to ask more questions. The kits assume some prior experience in building, and we realize that the docs might not be adequate for some people.
Ian |
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machine.cuisine
Joined: Jul 20, 2007 Posts: 61 Location: ks
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject:
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I got the 2SA798 and Tempco set up, thanks for helping me (see the obvious - had I actually looked closely at what the device is, I would of seen that it's just two transistors...)
frijitz wrote: | (1) I don't know exactly what your switch looks like physically. You should see two identical sections, each with four terminals next to each other and a separate fifth terminal. The switch is wired off of J2. The fifth terminals are where A0 and A1 are connected. The others are connected to either V+ or ground as indicated on the schematic. The order on the switch is the same as the order on the schematic. Let me know if this isn't clear -- we can make you a picture if necessary.
Ian |
I'm using a rotary select switch - with the two middle 'terminals' and the 'ring of terminals' around it and I've set the stopper on the 4th position.
I don't understand what's going on with the switch in the schematic. |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject:
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machine.cuisine wrote: | I'm using a rotary select switch - with the two middle 'terminals' and the 'ring of terminals' around it and I've set the stopper on the 4th position.
I don't understand what's going on with the switch in the schematic. |
Imagine the schematic bent around into a circle. The middle terminals are the A0 and A1 connections. Each of those connects to one of the outer terminals in each switch position. You can tell which ones by looking or by using an ohmmeter. In the first position they contact the terminals labeled "1" in the schematic. In the second position they contact the next pair in the schematic, and so on.
Ian |
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machine.cuisine
Joined: Jul 20, 2007 Posts: 61 Location: ks
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject:
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frijitz wrote: | Imagine the schematic bent around into a circle. The middle terminals are the A0 and A1 connections. Each of those connects to one of the outer terminals in each switch position. You can tell which ones by looking or by using an ohmmeter. In the first position they contact the terminals labeled "1" in the schematic. In the second position they contact the next pair in the schematic, and so on.
Ian |
Got it. Thanks !
All that's left to do is wire the jacks, pots and the switch to the panel and hopefully I'll be exploring a beautiful non-linear sonic landscape tonight!
Chris |
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machine.cuisine
Joined: Jul 20, 2007 Posts: 61 Location: ks
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject:
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Man, this thing is awesome...I thought the Steiner VCF was nice...someone said "aggressive" - that is an understatement. WOW.
Great job, Ian Fritz - thank you for letting us have a piece of your genius.
A note to whoever hasn't built the Threeler yet - Do use the "Fine" tune control - the "Coarse" is not subtle enough for minor tweaks - but the "Fine" control is a must, IMO. |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject:
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machine.cuisine wrote: | Man, this thing is awesome... |
Thanks, I appreciate that. I put a lot of time and effort into finding the gnarliest configurations. It was hard to choose among all the possibilities -- that's why I decided to put in the switch and bring out all three stages.
Ian |
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machine.cuisine
Joined: Jul 20, 2007 Posts: 61 Location: ks
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject:
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In the spirit of this board, here's my Threeler "panel"...I know it's ghettotronic, but this isn't a hobby for me - I do it (diy) for the sounds.
Also, below is a dry and simple sample of a Threeler "pad", taking on 3 mixed VCOs. The cutoff frequency is being swept by a slow LFO. Mode I, output 3.
Description: |
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43.04 KB |
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17895 Time(s) |
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three VCOs mixed into Threeler, mode 1, out 3. cutoff swept by lfo. |
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Download |
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threelermode1_3oscPAD.mp3 |
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658.29 KB |
Downloaded: |
1180 Time(s) |
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Scott Stites
Janitor
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject:
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That's a beautiful sample. And quite demonstrative of gentler side of the Threeler. Thanks for posting that! _________________ My Site |
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machine.cuisine
Joined: Jul 20, 2007 Posts: 61 Location: ks
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject:
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Scott Stites wrote: | And quite demonstrative of gentler side of the Threeler. |
Yeah, I realize that. But I search for that quality in a VCF..which not all VCFs can do so convincingly.
Crazy grinds are easy with the Threeler. I love it.
Thank you, Scott, for all of your demos...they are like little songs to me. |
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machine.cuisine
Joined: Jul 20, 2007 Posts: 61 Location: ks
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject:
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I'm getting juicy, fat and metal-guitar-like results in Modes 1&2 with VCOs to audio in, and routing 'Out 1' back to Threeler 'V/Oct input', and listening to audio from 'Out 3'.
Also, processing the 'Out 1' with something (say a CGS wavefolder) and routing it back to Threeler 'V/Oct' is nice, too...Of course, the Audio Input Level makes pretty drastic changes. |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject:
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Machine --
Thanks! I haven't tried any of that yet. Any chance for demo clip or two?
Ian |
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