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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Musical Interfaces
DIY Guitar HID Setup
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Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 6221
Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:31 pm    Post subject: DIY Guitar HID Setup
Subject description: The best made plans of mice and men often go astray.
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Hi, I'm planning to gradually construct a computerized Guitar effects setup using ChucK and some HID sensors. I'm posting to get your perspective on my planned approach to setting up this Musical Interface and point out flaws or better approaches.

I want to set it up so that when I shift weight to my left front foot I get more feedback, and when I shift weight to the right front foot, I get more reverb. Once that is accomplished there are many effects controls that can be set up using the shoe controls. Later I plan to add a multi-axis accelerometer to the guitar neck so that sound is altered by waving the guitar around (i.e. drums are played at headstock travel reverses).

I made a step-by-step plan for accomplishing this, shown below.

Code:
Experimental Guitar Interface
The following are possible steps in achieving the goal of a ChucK-based guitar signal processor with HID control features.  Starting with just a guitar and amp, the system grows over time, adding HID sensors and eventually going wireless from the PC.  Ultimately the PC becomes wearable and sensors are replaced with wireless versions to remove the wiring harness and free the player. 

Step One:  July 2008
Purchase guitar, small amp, and accessories.  Begin playing and learning guitar without computer hookup. 

Step Two:  July 2008
Connect to Mac USB port and program ChucK for effects.  Connect computer output to amp. 

Step Three:  August 2008
Set up Ubuntu Linux on notebook, transfer ChucK files, configure system around notebook. 

Step Four:  September 2008
Purchase force-sensitive resistors, construct wiring harness, connect Ultimark USB interface & place in enclosure.  Mount sensors in shoes and program ChucK to control feedback / reverb with the shoe sensors, plus control other effects. 

Step Five:  February 2009
Add accelerometer to guitar neck, code ChucK to recognize motion and alter sound accordingly. 

Step Six:  July 2009
Purchase wireless USB sticks and battery powered USB Hub.  Assemble to create fully wireless system. 

Step Seven:  October 2009
Make sensors wireless to remove wiring harness completely. 

Step Eight:  July 2010
Purchase wearable computer, configure with Ubuntu Linux and ChucK.  Add heads-up display. 


I won't be buying the guitar until July so there is plenty of time to make plans and discuss them with fellow hobbyists. So, without focusing on the ChucK aspect of it, what do you think of this plan? Are there any shortcuts or existing systems that I could use to accomplish such a setup more easily or cheaper in the long run? Any thoughts or suggestions?

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Coriolis



Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Posts: 616
Location: Stilling, Denmark

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just want to compliment you on a great idea. Cool
I play guitar myself, and have often been annoyed at the limited possibilities to manipulate effects settings, when both hands are in use on the instrument itself. I can after all only use one foot for stompbox stomping - if I don't want to fall on my arse (or sit down - boring).
Adding the rest of ones body to the arsenal is the way to go.

Personally, I'd like to use controllers like that with voltage-controllable analog effects, but that's mostly because I can't program...

Looking forward to whatever you come up with!

C
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Stream Operator


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Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coriolis wrote:
I just want to compliment you on a great idea.


Why thanks very much, and that's all it is right now, just an idea. Still, it is quite doable given my skills that haven't completely rusted over and it is just such a cool idea.

Since writing that I have focused on an accelerometer-only approach because I realized that six degrees of freedom gives you six controls, and who needs more than that?

It's cheap, too, the product could retail for $99 once all the details were ironed out. We could be looking at a nice new product for the guitar market.

Coriolis wrote:
Personally, I'd like to use controllers like that with voltage-controllable analog effects, but that's mostly because I can't program...

Looking forward to whatever you come up with!

C


Ah, well, that is even easier! You wouldn't need a USB interface for that, just buffer the accelerometer outputs with voltage followers and run the wires to your synth! You'd also want to do hardware subtraction and integration of the signals though... Anyway, kudos to you for suggesting the Synth version, Coriolis! Thanks!

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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's time for an update. I have read about doing this sort of thing on the web and learned that only one accelerometer chip is necessary. This is because you can use the gravity vector to determine pitch, roll, and yaw. That saves some money and complexity. It isn't perfect, though, as there may be real acceleration on the guitar besides gravity, but for reasonably slow motions I guess it will do nicely.

Then I went on a hunt for various accelerometers with USB interfaces. I found two very nice units for $500 and $300, plus some $50 units that were just a circuit board with no enclosure. Unfortunately many of these require programming, which requires a certain OS that I don't have (XP), or have custom drivers. The only way to get a true joystick interface that I can gather from the web is to go back to the A-PAC board for $37.

The A-PAC board comes with a USB cable, so all I need is that board and one $35 accelerometer board and I'm good to go, since I have all of the other parts. If I can manage to squeeze it into this month's budget, I can buy the parts soon and have this assembled and tested fairly soon.

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Stream Operator


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Audio files: 267

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, and since I'm up at 2am and can't sleep, I'll also update you on some curious ways of using the sensor.

First of all, there is the virtual stage. Let's say i walk back to where the drummer would be in a typical rock stage setup, back center. The computer detects my position and automatically switches the effects processing into drum mode. Then as I play, there is no guitar sound only drums in response to the string picking. Then I can smack the guitar or jerk it or something, play out a drum beat, and then signal it again somehow, and the computer will take this as a recorded loop and play back those drum sounds ad infinitum. In this way the player can be a one-man band.

Similarly, walking to stage right and front, you are where the bass guitar player would be, so the software puts you back into guitar mode and kicks in a pitch shifter, making your 6-string sound like a bass. You record a bass riff loop and then walk to stage left and front, where you can begin playing the lead guitar song.

Although you are wearing a mic all the time, if you shift to stage center, front, then you are where the singer is and you get a vocoder effect to your voice, perhaps mixing with the guitar somehow to be a computerized talk box effect.

And that's just one scenario. Then you point your guitar to the sky and recoil it like it just shot a bullet into the air and it switches programs from a menu selection. Next one is war, where lead guitar fires weapon sounds when played, or thunderstorm which plays thunder, rain, and lightning along with the guitar song.

Finally, an effect which can be on at all times is the classic effects controlled by orientation. Yaw can control positive and negative feedback (pointing up and down), pitch can control echo and reverb (back and front rotation), and roll can control feedback delay duration (leaning forward and back).

So in that scenario you have guitar players waving their guitars in spherical coordinates to tap all the different effects control possibilities in combination with each other.

So far that's all I've thought of, but I wanted to document it here before I forget, and also for your curiosity. Enjoy.

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Coriolis



Joined: Apr 11, 2005
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Location: Stilling, Denmark

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Your post about knobs and switches made go look at your site, and I must say, it still looks like a very cool project!

A question: Will the finished product be exactly that - the sensor, the box with the switches, pedal inputs, etc? Or will you provide an option to buy the "guts" of it, for people wanting to do a custom enclosure, integrate it into a guitar, etc? Sort of a middle of the road solution between the finished product and building from scratch?

Soldering/handling tiny smd's doesn't tempt me... Wink

C

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Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 6221
Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coriolis wrote:
Your post about knobs and switches made go look at your site, and I must say, it still looks like a very cool project!

A question: Will the finished product be exactly that - the sensor, the box with the switches, pedal inputs, etc? Or will you provide an option to buy the "guts" of it, for people wanting to do a custom enclosure, integrate it into a guitar, etc? Sort of a middle of the road solution between the finished product and building from scratch?

Soldering/handling tiny smd's doesn't tempt me... Wink

C


Coriolis, I lub your facial expression in your avatar, it proves that you're a guy who doesn't take himself too seriously and we need more of that in society. A lot more of it!

Thanks for the coolness evaluation, I estimate a coolness factor of 87% overall, give or take a few points! Um, regarding the level of DIY, the USB/sensor board will be small and mountable on the guitar. I have requested that an interface for additional pots/switches be placed on the product. The foot pedal thingie can be a total DIY project and I don't believe they plan to sell anything other than the USB interface for it, which they already are selling.

To me, it's great DIY. I plan to make a little bitty gum stick / tootsie-roll enclosure with or without hold and kill switches, bolt it next to my guitar's jack plate, and then use cable ties to get it into my puter. The control box I'll build out of a PVC pipe (how cool is that?) with bottom wood screwed into glued blocks that are sanded to fit the curvature (as if that was a clear description). I might even get a foot pedal, I dunno.

Now, if someone wants to kit all that jazz, I'm open to that as well. I don't believe that Ultimarc wants to kit guitar switches or do hand-cutting and sanding of PVC pipe for enclosures for example. So, maybe whenever the time comes I'll ask for someone who does kitting on electro-music.com, I dunno.

It's all just falling into place like some well oiled machine chugging along, this project is progressing beautifully. I just hope I don't get my finger stuck in the gears, haha! Cheers, C, and laugh a lot - you deserve it!

Oh, dang. A brainstorm happened. That pedal is so simple, why not mount it on the guitar sensor? Eeep! now I have more thinking to do!

Suggestions welcome! Cheers!

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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
lub your facial expression in your avatar


Why, thanks! Laughing
Sounds like you are one to something. While I'd love to control fx in my computer, I still think I'm going to do something just for analog as well.

I'll probably end up doing both, which means getting one of your gizmos for the digital side of things. I think I can put something together for analog on my own.

I sure you'll keep us updated!

C

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Stream Operator


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Audio files: 267

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, if you want to work with strictly analog, then there is the ADXL330 accelerometer chip. It has analog outputs and is the chip we are using, just we're putting it on a digital (USB) interface. So you could make an all-analog project with said chip. Dimension Engineering sells a breakout board for it with regulator and buffers for $35.
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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep, I was looking at that exact chip, from that exact vendor.
Seems very easy to use - would just need some scaling circuitry to bump the output voltages up to the 10V P-P range I have in my modular synth.

But still - going bananas with a guitar and a laptop is also very tempting..

C

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Stream Operator


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Audio files: 267

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, ain't it a cool chip? I remember when their first accelerometer chip came out, I got a sample in a sales brochure and read it like today's kid reads a Harry Potter book! Never used it though, didn't have the application yet, it was to more than 15 years later (today) when I would do that!

On your synth version, you'll need integrators, I'd imagine, so you can have acceleration and velocity and distance all available for experimentation. With 6 integrators you'd need a way to reset them all at once - analog switches across the integration caps? Dunno, just thinking about it.

I can't wait to jam with this thing. I wonder what it will feel like to twist around and strum once, having the sound go wooooosh! or something? Man, it's gonna be awesome! Thanks for the encouraging words.

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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, and BTW, I take it you're aware of the SparkFun and Dimension Engineering breakout boards? I like the Dimension Engineering one best.
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Coriolis



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah - if you're talking about those DIP adapters with buffers and regulation?

C

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Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 6221
Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coriolis wrote:
Yeah - if you're talking about those DIP adapters with buffers and regulation?

C


Yep, them's the ones. Nice product, albeit a little pricey. Worth it though.

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

Just noticed this thread.

Have you thought about using the insides of a WII Remote, cheap as chips sensors galore and bluetooth.

Have a search on the net to see what people are doing with them

Cheers

Andy
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Stream Operator


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Audio files: 267

PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:
Hi,

Just noticed this thread.

Have you thought about using the insides of a WII Remote, cheap as chips sensors galore and bluetooth.

Have a search on the net to see what people are doing with them

Cheers

Andy



Bob! You are so right! Good thinking, you are right on the mark. Like most of my ideas, this one's been done as well. The ChucKists in the PLork and SLork musical performance groups use WiiMotes, and on my project page I discuss why to use them and why not. I decided to go USB for the first version and add WiiMote capability later for various reasons.

In fact, you don't even have to take the WiiMote apart, so it's a mounting hardware-only solution. But with Ultimarc making our boards for us, we'll get a board the size of a stick of gum that does the job, that's small. Only problem is the wire... for now.

But yeah, good thinking.

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