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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Cwejman Sound
Cwejman S1 MKII VS. Modular
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Jazzpunk



Joined: Aug 11, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:06 pm    Post subject: Cwejman S1 MKII VS. Modular Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Greetings,
I have become enamored with the Cwejman sound and am currently weighing my purchasing options. I have quite a few questions so please bear with me!

I am a newbie as far as modular synthesis goes so the S1 MKII has alot of appeal for me. I haven't really gotten into the 'esoteric' vein that attracts many modular fans so the immediacy of a semi-modular is very attractive. That said, I would love to eventually explore the world of blips and bleeps by employing additional modules down the road.

So, my questions/concerns are;

1. Just how modular is the S1 MKII? It seems to have enough patch points to integrate nicely into a bigger system but as I said, I am a newbie so I may be overlooking some glaring ommissions that could come back to haunt me later!

2. Are the modules 'better' than the S1 MKII? The same? How do the oscillators compare? I noticed that there are more features on the modular versions of the filters. How much would I be missing out on?

3. What modules would be needed to approximate the S1 MKII? What would the cost of a modular based 'replica' of the S1 MKII be?

Lastly, for anyone who owns the S1 MKII as well as additional Cwejman modules, I would love to hear if the S1 MKII is still a keeper now that you have the modular option. Are you happy with this 'hybrid' set up or would you prefer having gone entirely the modular route?

Thanks in advance for any advice/opinions!

Last edited by Jazzpunk on Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jazzpunk



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmm...looks like I missed the party! Any Cwejman enthusiasts still stopping by?
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Perhaps none have discovered this topic yet? I know we have some S1 owners here.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Cwejman S1 MKII VS. Modular Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jazzpunk wrote:

3. What modules would be needed to approximate the S1 MK2? What would the cost of a modular based 'replica' of the S1 be?


That would be easy to figure out. http://www.synthesizers.com/synthinvent.html
or
http://www.synthesizers.com/systems.html


Very Happy

You might also want to check out Doepfer.

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Jazzpunk



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Cwejman S1 MKII VS. Modular Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Jazzpunk wrote:

3. What modules would be needed to approximate the S1 MK2? What would the cost of a modular based 'replica' of the S1 be?


That would be easy to figure out. http://www.synthesizers.com/synthinvent.html
or
http://www.synthesizers.com/systems.html


Very Happy

You might also want to check out Doepfer.


Thanks for the tip. I've been to the synthesizers.com site before but unfortuneately, I can't run the software as I'm on a Mac. I should clarify my question though as I meant to ask how would I replicate the S1 MKII using Cwejman modules only (if that's even possible)?

It's easy to see how to approximate the S1 MKII using the synthesizers.com modules as they are very straightforward but the Cwejman modules kind of confuse me! I don't get the different oscillator modules for example but that's mainly because I've never used a modular so it's hard for me to simply 'imagine' scenarios.

I'll check out Doepfor as well.

Cheers

Last edited by Jazzpunk on Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a dotcom system myself ( and I´m on a mac.. with Parallels as well as BootCamp Very Happy ). Anyways, I´m absolutely in love with my current dotcom system. If you are really interested in a modular system, then I see no reason for spending a huge lot on money on a semi-modular system first. That said, a semi-modular is nice too, and if you have a lot of money then simply buy everything there is out there. Very Happy Who has the most synths when he dies has won. Shocked Laughing Shocked

A thing to keep in mind re the dotcom products is that the modules seem kinda understated and dull compared to other stuff out there. However, the overall design is very smart and you get far more power than you´d think. BTW, it´s sounds just great too.

And you can add in DIY modules or other stuff later. Have you discovered the DIY section here ?

Another section to keep an eye on is the electro-music.com Clavia Nord Modular forums. You can learn a lot about patching from that community.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Idea

How experienced are you with synths? You shouldn´t listen to any buying advice and especially not your own gearlust before you figure out if you know what you need to know first. Very Happy

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Jazzpunk



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
I have a dotcom system myself ( and I´m on a mac.. with Parallels as well as BootCamp Very Happy ). Anyways, I´m absolutely in love with my current dotcom system. If you are really interested in a modular system, then I see no reason for spending a huge lot on money on a semi-modular system first. That said, a semi-modular is nice too, and if you have a lot of money then simply buy everything there is out there. Very Happy Who has the most synths when he dies has won. Shocked Laughing Shocked

A thing to keep in mind re the dotcom products is that the modules seem kinda understated and dull compared to other stuff out there. However, the overall design is very smart and you get far more power than you´d think. BTW, it´s sounds just great too.

And you can add in DIY modules or other stuff later. Have you discovered the DIY section here ?

Another section to keep an eye on is the electro-music.com Clavia Nord Modular forums. You can learn a lot about patching from that community.


I've been lusting after the dotcom stuff for a while now as well. I was thinking of starting with a very basic dot com rack mount set up to get going.

Unfortuneately for my bank account I can also see the Cwejman sound co-existing quite nicely along side the dotcom! It's a bummer that there are so many different formats as it would be nice to be able to combine them all.

Experience wise, I am quite comfortable with subtractive synthesis and own quite a few analog boards. I have no experience with modular synths however and have to admit my head starts to spin when trying to read beyond the normal 'constraints' that I have become accustomed to!

Thanks for the tip on the Clavia forum, I will definitely check it out.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ahhh, right! Very Happy Then you should start the modular madness right away.
You might as well aim for a large cabinet and PSU right away, and then slowly buy the modules you feel you need. You will fill up a 22 unit cabinet very fast. Thing is that a 22 unit cab is excellent for a defined function.. like a sequencer with additional helper modules, a filter bank or an envelope bank and stuff like that.. but it seems more sensible to buy a large cabinet first and then take it from there. Very Happy
And you should consider that you need to keep the modular madness under control. Cool

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Clavia G2 software demo should also be of interest. It is supposed to be a demo of the G2 hardware, but since it contains an audio engine you may also use it for testing concepts and learning how stuff really works. Recommended! Very Happy
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Jazzpunk



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
And you should consider that you need to keep the modular madness under control. Cool


From the posts I've read and the pics I've seen this does not seem even remotely possible! Smile

Nice tunes by the way.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ahhh right.. well.. it´s about pretending that you have it under control.. Shocked Laughing Shocked

BTW.. thx.. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd really love to know if the Cewjman modular oscillators are in anyway superior to the ones in the S1 or if they are the same. Sadly this part of the forum appears to have been all but abandoned! Crying or Very sad
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softfin



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jazzpunk wrote:
I'd really love to know if the Cewjman modular oscillators are in anyway superior to the ones in the S1 or if they are the same. Sadly this part of the forum appears to have been all but abandoned! Crying or Very sad


I can't really comment on the Cwejman modules not having owned or tried any of them, but I'm under the impression the VCOs in S1 and in Cwejman modules would be quite similar. If I remember correctly, the Cwejman modular VCOs have a single output with switchable waveform and don't have an output for each waveform (like modular VCOs usually have). This might be a plus or a minus, it depends on what kind of output configuration you prefer.

Anyway, I have the S1, so perhaps I should share some views about it.
I like the idea that it's compact and obviously considerably more portable than a modular system is, but it is also quite limited when compared to a decent modular system. There's just one lfo (although one can always use one osc as an lfo if just two oscs for audio is enough). I tend to use one or two additional LFOs from my modular most of the time when I'm playing the S1. I often also use additional mixers and VCAs with the S1. It is a great synth, but I feel it needs some accompanying modules to get the best out of it.
I think it is a great idea to build as many modules as possible by yourself, that way you'll certainly get what you want and you can pretty easily customize the modules to suit your taste better. I have found that my diy modules have been just as good (sometimes even better) than their commercial cousins in regard to build quality. Diy modules are also easier to service by yourself. I have also found that the diy VCOs I have built stay in tune as well as the oscillators in S1. But diy needs time and the quality of diy modules depends mostly on how well you build them and what kind parts you use to built them.

Then some critic about the S1... Although mine has worked most of the time absolutely fine, I've had some reliability problems with it. Sometimes the second oscillator gets out of tune without a warning and sounds like it's being modulated by S/H/noise. I was very frustrated about that earlier, but lately it has worked fine with no problems with the osc2.
The vca seems more prone to make clicking sounds than my modular VCAs.

But all in all, the S1 is a great synth with a fine sound and an interface that is relatively quick to use.
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Jazzpunk



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great insights softfin. Thanks!
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Cat-A-Tonic



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Cwejman VCO-6 has multiple outputs.
I think that one looks nice, but the VCO-RM2 is alot of bang for your buck too.
I don't have any experience with Cwejman by the way.
I pretty much always use more than one output from my Blacet VCO at the same time.
The ASM2 from Elby Designs looks a bit like a DIY version of the S1.
It might be a consideration if you want to get your hands dirty.
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Sound



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a Cwejman S2, a Cwejman S1MK2, and a module, the VCEQ-3.

About the S1MK2... I also had problems with the oscillator 2, it fall and was repaired by the manufacturer, and after that I had problems with its sockets. Noise due short circuit. It seems an human mistake. But the solution that the manufacturer has offered does not work according my measures. I don't like the reaction of the manufacturer. I still have my defective S1MK2.

Edited because my patencie is ended, for more details scroll down.

Last edited by Sound on Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sound



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Because maybe you want to build a modular you would like to read my experience:

I tried to make a modular last year and I'm completely disappointed. I have bought products of 6 different manufacturers and I' m disappointed with 3 of them. 3 of 6 means that this sector is not very professional. This is clear.

The worst of them is PLAN B , this is a company based on marketing: a good website that looks professional and some friends spaming the net.
The manufacturer sent me 6 envelopes with completely different behaviors, one of them has an outsocket that doesn`t work , other has a knob that doesn't work with an ugly reparation in its PCB, also sent me a model13 with the two channels completely cross-overed, and components that seemed soldered by a monkey... The manufacturer was offended for my public complaint an tried to defend what he sent me. Not enough with that, he defamed me backwards.

Two months later, I received some modules from other manufacturer -that I have already ordered before receive the PlanB "modules"- After a big delay I was disappointed with the build quality, like missed screws and other details that reveals that does not exist a final check quality step in its production chain. I can not understand it. My complaint was answered minimizing the matter and mentioning my reputation -because my plan B public complaint-. Absolutely surrealistic.

Other important point is the fanboys. If you look in depth in the internet you will found some posts complaining about some manufacturers. In these posts always appears someone to minimize the complaint with silly sentences like "he is a great guy" "one day I bought a module from him and all was perfect" .... Do not believe them. Indeed I doubt that all they really exist.




I do NOT recommend anyone to buy a modular synthesizer.

If you are interested in build a modular the best option is in the DIY subforum of electro-music.com, You will found there, all what you need.

Last edited by Sound on Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cbm



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sound wrote:
Do not believe them. Indeed I doubt that all they really exist.

I do NOT recommend anyone to buy a modular synthesizer.


It seems to me that once your advice is boiled down, it consists of:
- DON'T believe other people's anecdotal evidence
- DO believe my anecdotal evidence

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but there are LOTS of people who are very happy with their modular synthesizer.

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Sound



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cbm wrote:
Sound wrote:
Do not believe them. Indeed I doubt that all they really exist.

I do NOT recommend anyone to buy a modular synthesizer.


It seems to me that once your advice is boiled down, it consists of:
- DON'T believe other people's anecdotal evidence
- DO believe my anecdotal evidence

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but there are LOTS of people who are very happy with their modular synthesizer.


I'm sure about that.

My advice is acording my experience.

Every one is free for do what he want.

Best Regards.
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Jazzpunk



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sound wrote:
My advice is acording my experience.

Every one is free for do what he want.

Best Regards.


I appreciate hearing all experiences, from the good to the bad to the ugly!
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Sound



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The full matter

I bought one Cwejman S1 Mk2, serial number 021 directly to the manufacturer, Wowa Cwejman, on 12 april 2006

I received it and I noticed that one envelope can not be retrigered. I sent the synthesizer to the manufacturer, he fix it and sent me.

The oscillator 2 fault in august 2006, I sent the synthesizer again in 28 september and the manufacturer return me it in 10 November 2006, He had changed the PCB.

In beginnings 2007 I had noticed that the "external input" of the LPF and the “white noise” output of my S1MK2 do not work well. There was like a short circuit, crossing signals and noise.

After a first examination, in may 2007, of my Cwejman S1mk2, I concluded that the reason for this problem is that when you plug in any socket jack of a S1MK2 you are touching the printed circuit board with the tip of the plug jack.

I had contacted the manufacturer and he confirmed me he was aware about this problem. He said that he would send me a front panel nuts 0,4mm higher and a tool for that I be able to fix it.

I would have appreciated if the manufacturer had informed me about the problem at the moment that he detected it. Also I would have appreciated that he attend me on phone but he didn’t want.

In a careful second examination, I took measures and photographed the PCB of the S1MK2, serial number 021, and as a consequence I can infer that according with my measures there is a failure in its design. You con see it below.

Also I had examinated the VCEQ-3 serial number 26 which the manufacturer sent me only one month later than the S1MK2 and in its PCB there is a hole under each jack socket in the way that the tips of the jacks plug can not touch the PCB.

That could solve the problem of the S1MK2.





After studying the semi-modular synthesizer Cwejman S1 MK2, serial number 021, due to the fact that there is a bad connection in some of its 65 jack sockets, we can infer:

*The male connectors of 1/8" -jack-plugs- are longer (14,6 mm) that the depth of the female connectors of 1/8" -jack-sockets- where they should be connected (14,2 mm).

*The jack-sockets are directly soldered on the PCB.

*The circuits of the PCB pass below the jack-sockets.

*As a consequence of all above mentioned and of the daily use of the synthesizer, the tip (top end) of the jack-plugs, being connected (plugged) one time after another, wastes the green paint that protects the PCB, permitting that the copper of the printed circuit gets in contact with the tip of the of the jack-plugs, thus causing short circuits.

*This way and due to the bigger dimension of the jack-plugs compared to the dimension of the jack-sockets, with the daily use of the synthesizer all of the jack-sockets can finally end working defectively.

*It can also be inferred that the solution which was offered by the manufacturer “To change the nuts that hold the jack-sockets to the front panel with other nuts which are thicker by 0,4mm compared to the ones that already exist” will not solve the problem, because the jack-plugs measure 14,6 mm and the jack-sockets will also measure 14,6mm. To this we should also add the fact that the increase of the depth of the jack-sockets with thicker nuts could also cause a bad contact of the jack-plugs with the interior flap of the jack-sockets.




Here, you can find the sketch with the measures and detailed photos. You can click on the links.



Here, you can see the naked cooper of the circuit. This corresponds to the noise output jack-socket.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3077/2789934465_3e0835f557_o.jpg


Here, you can see the naked cooper of the circuit. This corresponds to the External Input LPF jack-sokcet.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3119/2790785760_548fd3e57d_o.jpg

Here is the sketch with the measurements. You can notice that the plug-jacks (which the manufacturer sent me) are 0.4mm longer than the depth of the jack socket.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3225/2789934975_72641c393a_o.jpg


Detail of the nuts.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/2789966461_e4a5093849_b.jpg



Here is a detail of the VCQ-3 module, where you can see a hole under
each socket.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3247/2790786674_e7e259b193_o.jpg
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Sound



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well... more things, about the measures of the jack plug... They were of one of the jacks plugs that the manufacturer sent me. 14,6mm.

Time after I measured all the 18 patch cables that he sent me- 36 jack plugs- and the measures oscilles within 14,4 to 14,8.

It si clear that the only solution that he ofered me does not work.

Also I investigated al the net looking for jack plugs and I found this plug jack that measures 15,5mm
http://www.lumberg.com/Produkte/PDFs/1532_03.pdf

And also this others that measures 13,5mm
http://www.lumberg.com/Produkte/PDFs/KLS22.pdf

The last ones...maybe are they a "solution"?

I sent a mail to the manufacturer time ago with all that, without answer.

In any case, all those who have a S1MK2 must to know it.
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Sound



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And a surprise, Someone has sent me a picture of the PCB of his S1MK2 and it has a hole under each jack socket. This S1 was bought this year.

This is one of the solutions that I have asked the manufacturer since may 2007. He never has ofered me other solution that change the nuts.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3093/2790925674_8cee093f75_b.jpg





Wich PCB have all you? When you buy your S1MK2?



Regards.
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Jazzpunk



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sound wrote:
And a surprise, Someone has sent me a picture of the PCB of his S1MK2 and it has a hole under each jack socket. This S1 was bought this year.

This is one of the solutions that I have asked the manufacturer since may 2007. He never has ofered me other solution that change the nuts.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3093/2790925674_8cee093f75_b.jpg





Wich PCB have all you? When you buy your S1MK2?



Regards.


Very interesting information. In light of the fact that you were esentially a beta tester on the first run, I do hope that Cwejman will offer you an affordable fix to your unit.
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