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Broadwave
Joined: Feb 16, 2007 Posts: 347 Location: Manchester UK
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rjd2
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 236 Location: philly
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:48 am Post subject:
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sweet-these, im definitely building-i'll probably wait til tim's pcb's are done for vco's. hate to ask this, but do you have any docs/bom for the parts?
andy, how easy would it be to toss off the vca and eg circuits? then we can all recreate a full on arp modular! thanks a ton for doing these, looking forward to this stuff. |
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Broadwave
Joined: Feb 16, 2007 Posts: 347 Location: Manchester UK
Audio files: 6
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:36 am Post subject:
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Hi all,
Ok, here's the PCB and component layout for the 4023 VCF, one or two things though...
The original TZ81/581 expo pair have been replaced with 2N3904/06 (perfectly acceptable subs), and the original 2N5172's are now 2N3904's (again, perfectly acceptable sub).
You will need to watch out when you insert the trannies, as I haven't changed the PCB foil from the original, so you'll have to twist the transistors a bit, as the originals had different pin-outs.
There are two fly leads (marked as blue on the pdf, ugly solution I know) and a wire link which is obscured somewhat by one of the 61.9k resistors - please don't forget these.
The only other change I made was for the CV summer, the original was an LM301 with compensation cap, I had none left so that's been replaced with a TL071 (you can also replace the other two 301's with the TL071, but remember to remove the 33pf caps... In fact, the VCF will probably sound better using TL0's).
I seriously like this filter, I know everyone goes on about 24db Moog VCF's and how fabulously powerful they are, but this cuts through anything, it's a real sizzler - but be carefull when you crank up the resonance, as there's no gain compensation... I don't want you to blow your speakers
I'll get a BOM and samples up for everything when I've slept... been awake now for 36 hours... need... sleep... peaceful... sleep... ZZZZzzzz...
Andy
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ARP 4023.pdf |
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_________________ Kronos 2-88, Kronos 61, Studiologic Sledge V2/SL, Broadwave ARP 2600EX, Broadwave 18U ARP based Eurorack Modular, Broadwave Minimoog Clone, GEM S2 Turbo.
Synth DIY Projects
Musical Doodlings Last edited by Broadwave on Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Broadwave
Joined: Feb 16, 2007 Posts: 347 Location: Manchester UK
Audio files: 6
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:13 am Post subject:
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rjd2 wrote: | sweet-these, im definitely building-i'll probably wait til tim's pcb's are done for vco's. hate to ask this, but do you have any docs/bom for the parts?
andy, how easy would it be to toss off the vca and eg circuits? then we can all recreate a full on arp modular! thanks a ton for doing these, looking forward to this stuff. |
Hi rjd2,
Unfortunately I have no other info on these VCF's (just a couple of very good friends who let me poke around inside their Oddy's - I just copied the PCB directly from the modules). It's seems that anyone who *does* have detailed info on these, tends to keep it to themselves
You may get some useful info here:
http://www.till.com/arptech/40235/index.html
I tried to build it last year, unsuccessfully though, as I'm not too hot on double sided boards... but getting better!
The Oddy VCA is dead simple, the AR/ADSR are both made from discrete trannies (there's a joke there... but I'm not biting!), and they, along with the Noise/S&H/LFO will be my next quest.
Andy. _________________ Kronos 2-88, Kronos 61, Studiologic Sledge V2/SL, Broadwave ARP 2600EX, Broadwave 18U ARP based Eurorack Modular, Broadwave Minimoog Clone, GEM S2 Turbo.
Synth DIY Projects
Musical Doodlings |
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widdly
Joined: Jun 25, 2007 Posts: 268 Location: singapore
G2 patch files: 2
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject:
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Just checked out your broadwave modular page....that things is AWESOME! Last edited by widdly on Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Peake
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject:
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You might wish (or might not wish) to check out the circuit with the 301 in place, for input overload characteristics, etc. That IC, IIRC, soft clips rather nicely, even though it's slow as hell.
There really isn't much to the Odyssey partswise, is there? Just a lot of pots and sliders..thanks for making these available. _________________ We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid. -mwagener
"IC 741. Sometimes you don't want fidelity." -Small Bear Electronics Catalog |
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Broadwave
Joined: Feb 16, 2007 Posts: 347 Location: Manchester UK
Audio files: 6
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:30 am Post subject:
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Peake wrote: | You might wish (or might not wish) to check out the circuit with the 301 in place, for input overload characteristics, etc. That IC, IIRC, soft clips rather nicely, even though it's slow as hell.
There really isn't much to the Odyssey partswise, is there? Just a lot of pots and sliders..thanks for making these available. |
Hi Peake,
Just received a bunch of 301's - Yes, you're right it does clip rather nicely, and if you really push it, it sounds positively evil
No, there's not much to the Oddy at all, apart from the occasional difficult to get part (a couple of dual FET's for the 24db VCF and S&H - 2 x 2N5459 work well - and the elusive 2N5910 in the VCO's).
Apart from that, it's all hardware - I'd love to rebuild everything with sliders, but I've not found a decent and tidy way to cut slots into Aluminum.
Andy. _________________ Kronos 2-88, Kronos 61, Studiologic Sledge V2/SL, Broadwave ARP 2600EX, Broadwave 18U ARP based Eurorack Modular, Broadwave Minimoog Clone, GEM S2 Turbo.
Synth DIY Projects
Musical Doodlings |
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rjd2
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 236 Location: philly
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:59 am Post subject:
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sorry to ask for even more info when you have already provided so much, but do you have a similar pdf for the 4035 filter? no rush, im not ready to move on this stuff right away; ive just been looking for months and months for arp cloned module info, so this is all great news to me! |
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Broadwave
Joined: Feb 16, 2007 Posts: 347 Location: Manchester UK
Audio files: 6
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:18 am Post subject:
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rjd2 wrote: | sorry to ask for even more info when you have already provided so much, but do you have a similar pdf for the 4035 filter |
Hi rj,
4035 details up soon, I noticed a bit of a boo-boo on the original board I made, just need a bit of time to correct it
Andy. _________________ Kronos 2-88, Kronos 61, Studiologic Sledge V2/SL, Broadwave ARP 2600EX, Broadwave 18U ARP based Eurorack Modular, Broadwave Minimoog Clone, GEM S2 Turbo.
Synth DIY Projects
Musical Doodlings |
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rjd2
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 236 Location: philly
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Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:05 am Post subject:
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just wanted to make a comment on this whole arp thing, and why its really awesome to me....
i had wondered for the longest why noone had done a clone of the 4035 filter, which is in some monumental arp designs that i love the sound of. the answer i always got was " its the moog lawsuit filter, and peeople make moog filters, so just do one of those".
and yet, arps with this filter sound NOTHING LIKE MOOG INSTRUMENTS! (to me, at least). glad that im not the only yahoo who sees it this way.... |
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brother303
Joined: Nov 02, 2010 Posts: 139 Location: ruhr-area/germany
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Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:59 pm Post subject:
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Hello,
an old thread is coming up again...
I got my board etched from a local pcb-service and now there is one question on the 3 trimmers on this pcb.
PDF is here... http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/arp_4023_163.pdf
What does the "CV-reject"trimmer do? And how to adjust it?
Is there any kind builder around here who would like to share his knowledge about the secrets of adjusting this?
Thanks and best regards
Greg |
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LektroiD
Joined: Aug 23, 2008 Posts: 1018 Location: Scottish Borders
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 2
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:40 pm Post subject:
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This certainly looks like a great project, although I do have a query (and please excuse my ignorance here), but I don't see what the tempco is doing here, it's not thermally coupled to the transistors or anything, so surely it can be substituted with a fixed metal film (or similar)? _________________ LektroiD |
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brother303
Joined: Nov 02, 2010 Posts: 139 Location: ruhr-area/germany
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:39 am Post subject:
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Hi,
LektroiD wrote: | ...but I don't see what the tempco is doing here, it's not thermally coupled to the transistors or anything, so surely it can be substituted with a fixed metal film (or similar)? |
Exactly what I think. I´ll try building this filter without tempco...and maybe add one later if really required.
Btw,any idea on the "cv-reject" trimmer and how to adjust it?
Cheers
Greg |
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alcide
Joined: Apr 20, 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Lille, France
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Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:24 am Post subject:
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I've spent some time now with the tremendous 4023, and have achieved some tones I was after for a very long time...I have, however, a question: at high frequencies (cutoff) when resonance is high, if I apply a lot of CV's, the filter produces short and uncontrollable screams (the resonance doesn't track anymore, and doesn't follow any enveloppe: just ultra high-pitched clicks). May it have something to do with LM301's weaknesses (i didn't select them, and only used one tl071 for cv-summing) / bad transistor matching ? Or is this a normal behaviour ?
(And thanks again, Andy, for your Ody-projects !) |
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isak
Joined: Dec 13, 2009 Posts: 847 Location: Israel
Audio files: 18
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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:24 am Post subject:
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Hi Andy.
The Tempco resistor is for keyboard tracking?
If I'm not interested in keyboard tracking can use regular 1% resistor?
If I use the tl071 instead lm301 you said to remove the 33pF caps, do I need to put jumpers instead?
cheers,
Isak E. _________________ http://www.myspace.com/mgmtrance |
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Broadwave
Joined: Feb 16, 2007 Posts: 347 Location: Manchester UK
Audio files: 6
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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:40 am Post subject:
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isak wrote: | Hi Andy.
The Tempco resistor is for keyboard tracking?
If I'm not interested in keyboard tracking can use regular 1% resistor?
If I use the tl071 instead lm301 you said to remove the 33pF caps, do I need to put jumpers instead?
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The Tempco is mainly for frequency "stability" which is vital in a VCO, but not so much in a VCF, so it's ok to use a regular resistor.
Just remove the 33pf cap, no jumper required _________________ Kronos 2-88, Kronos 61, Studiologic Sledge V2/SL, Broadwave ARP 2600EX, Broadwave 18U ARP based Eurorack Modular, Broadwave Minimoog Clone, GEM S2 Turbo.
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Broadwave
Joined: Feb 16, 2007 Posts: 347 Location: Manchester UK
Audio files: 6
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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:45 am Post subject:
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alcide wrote: | I have, however, a question: at high frequencies (cutoff) when resonance is high, if I apply a lot of CV's, the filter produces short and uncontrollable screams |
The 4023 will overload (not in a nice way) if the CV is to high - The ARP Odyssey is designed to keep the CV mixer levels within a certain range to avoid this happening. I think you probably just need to attenuate your CV's a little... or a lot _________________ Kronos 2-88, Kronos 61, Studiologic Sledge V2/SL, Broadwave ARP 2600EX, Broadwave 18U ARP based Eurorack Modular, Broadwave Minimoog Clone, GEM S2 Turbo.
Synth DIY Projects
Musical Doodlings |
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isak
Joined: Dec 13, 2009 Posts: 847 Location: Israel
Audio files: 18
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alcide
Joined: Apr 20, 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Lille, France
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:49 am Post subject:
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Problem fixed ! I replaced the lm301's with TL071, and everything's fine now (maybe I should have selected, as required, the 301 ? But I don't know how to do it, and I don't care anymore, in fact: it sounds a LOT better, now, i must say (by modern standards, at least...)
Thanks ! |
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The Real MC
Joined: Jun 20, 2008 Posts: 62 Location: Painted Post NY
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:03 am Post subject:
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The 301 is an uncompensated opamp which required the right capacitor to prevent oscillation. That may had been the "squealing" you heard. 301s were also prone to latchups.
The TL071 that you substituted has internal compensation and that may have fixed the problem.
Could had been a bad cap or bad 301 opamp. ARP did have a selection process for the 301 opamps. The 301 offered that design flexibility of tailoring the compensation circuit towards the application circuit, but it was not without its thorns and in the long run the industry favored the internally compensated opamp. |
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paulstone
Joined: Apr 14, 2013 Posts: 23 Location: ITA
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Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:07 am Post subject:
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Hello guys
will the Jfet BF245B work instead of the 2N5459 ?
i have build one of this filter but no work
for build it i have use :
BF245B (soldered SGD with pin reversed) instead of The 2N5459
TL071 (both whitout 33p caps) instead of the LM301
Harris CA3080
Suggestion ?
thx
Paolo |
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Baloo
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 Posts: 16 Location: France
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Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:09 pm Post subject:
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I've built this one but no sound at all ... Can anyone confirm this layout is working???
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Broadwave
Joined: Feb 16, 2007 Posts: 347 Location: Manchester UK
Audio files: 6
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:18 am Post subject:
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Baloo wrote: | I've built this one but no sound at all ... Can anyone confirm this layout is working???
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Sorry you seem to be having a problem Baloo, but I have two in my modular, fully working, using the layouts I posted here.
Have you checked that the transistors are orientated correctly (the pin outs are different from the original). Are your 3080's "genuine" there seems to be quite a few fakes out there! Have you inserted all the wire links?
If possible, can you send some hi rez (and in focus) pics of both sides of your board... I'll do what I can to help.
Andy |
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Baloo
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 Posts: 16 Location: France
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:25 am Post subject:
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Thanks a lot for your help Andy.
4023 is working perfectly. A bad cap replaced and it came to life.
thanks for sharing
Now I will try the 4035 one but I've got not much experience with double faced PCBs...gonna make a try anyway. |
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Baloo
Joined: Jul 09, 2013 Posts: 16 Location: France
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:38 am Post subject:
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Anyone for a DIY Odyssey envelope generator layout ?? |
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