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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Thomas Henry designs
Source for the SAD4096?
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creatorlars



Joined: Nov 26, 2007
Posts: 524
Location: Denton, TX
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:42 pm    Post subject: Source for the SAD4096?
Subject description: Building the VC Analog Delay
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First off -- hello to everyone! My first post here, but I've been lurking a while (almost feel like I know some of you already -- I like the tightknit community environment on this board.) I'm Lars -- a 23 year old musician and dayjob graphic designer from Denton, Texas. Started soldering shit over the Summer, and it's consumed me -- must be my Danish middle class TV building genes flaring up.

I'm in the ending stages of a Midibox Sequencer project, and the beginning stages of a modular analog drum machine. I've got an 808 BD clone module and Thomas Henry's Clangora on the table right now, and have UD-1 boards and more 808/909 module clones on the way. I can't wait to post some pictures of the completed modules when I'm done. Thomas Henry's designs and this forum seem to be the spot for projects like this, so you'll probably see a lot of me. Smile

Back to my original question--

I'd really like to build the VC Analog Delay module -- I have the PDFs and all the info I need, but can't seem to find an SAD4096 chip anywhere. Does anyone have an extra one, or know where to find them? I heard you could use the SAD1024, and those are in stock at Small Bear, but I don't know what affect this would have on the utility of the unit.

Let me know if any of you have advice -- even on similar VC Delay projects, if they exist.

Sincerely,
Lars Larsen
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome Lars, you seem to fit right in Very Happy
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Indeed, welcome Lars!

A little over a year ago, a mysterious package from Mankato arrived at my doorstep. I opened it up to see what appears in this attached picture - a MAP Voltage Controlled Delay. Along with it was a myterious phase shifter prototype called the "MultiPhaser", which was exactly one letter off from my now long neglected MultiPhase project. Little is known of who sent them to me, some guy in North Mankato, MN....... Studs Kreitzer I think is his name. Very Happy

Anyway, the VCD had a SAD4096 in it, but, unfortunately it was a dead/dying IC. I think something about the process for making the SAD4096 caused its guts to slowly disintegrate over time - I've heard horror stories.

I had no SAD4096s, but I had a few SAD1024s. I breadboard a little interface from the VCD to the SAD1024 (I was only using half of the SAD - 512 stages IIRC). It sounded marvelous. Obviously gone were the long delay times, but what replaced it was a pretty nice flanger/chorus device. Oh, how I wish I would have made some samples of it - I was off on some other project at the time (Klee) and it's one of those things that is in my "to be finished" pile. It had a wonderful, deep sound, and great noise reduction.

Cheerio,
Scott


map_adc.JPG
 Description:
MAP VCD built by Thomas Henry, spliced into a SAD1024 sitting atop my DW6000 (the only room I had at the time).
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map_adc.JPG



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Thomas Henry



Joined: Mar 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, indeed, be careful what you wish for; you might just get it.

About a decade ago, I purchased 1000 SAD-4096 chips for what I thought would make me rich for the rest of my life.

The upshot: of these, only some 65 tested good; the rest had deteriorated and were worthless. I took it in the shorts on that deal.

I never want to see an SAD-4096 as long as I live.

Thomas Henry
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

what are the alternatives, i would love a nice delay. everyone just keeps on telling me to buy an old delay box and be content (i keep eyeing of my friend's spaceecho and almost agree), but the whole DIY buy is there kickin to make a unit with long delay times a clean sound. anything worth looking for? ( i still will buy a space echo if i get the chance tho Wink )
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Tim Servo



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:43 am    Post subject: Source for the SAD4096? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thomas Henry wrote:
Yes, indeed, be careful what you wish for; you might just get it.

About a decade ago, I purchased 1000 SAD-4096 chips for what I thought would make me rich for the rest of my life.

The upshot: of these, only some 65 tested good; the rest had deteriorated and were worthless. I took it in the shorts on that deal.

I never want to see an SAD-4096 as long as I live.

Thomas Henry


Oh, that SUCKS! Maybe you should find a cooperative road work crew and have them flatten the remaining chips with a steamroller.

Tim (then post the video on that "YouTube" all the kids are talking about these days) Servo
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creatorlars



Joined: Nov 26, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, thanks for the warm welcome and useful information!

I'm curious about alternatives as well... I do need a type of "echo/delay" type unit for this project. I'm hoping to use it for live vocals (among other things), in tandem with a custom designed CV controller, such as a type of sensor-glove or ribbon. Trying to find a way to make complex vocal effects very intuitive in a live setting, without breaking audience contact by facing away to tweak knobs. This would be simpler with MIDI and a PC, but I tend to enjoy torturing myself, I guess. Wink
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fluxmonkey



Joined: Jun 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Source for the SAD4096? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim Servo wrote:
Thomas Henry wrote:
Yes, indeed, be careful what you wish for; you might just get it.

About a decade ago, I purchased 1000 SAD-4096 chips for what I thought would make me rich for the rest of my life.

The upshot: of these, only some 65 tested good; the rest had deteriorated and were worthless. I took it in the shorts on that deal.

I never want to see an SAD-4096 as long as I live.

Thomas Henry


Oh, that SUCKS! Maybe you should find a cooperative road work crew and have them flatten the remaining chips with a steamroller.

Tim (then post the video on that "YouTube" all the kids are talking about these days) Servo


H^) harry would be pleased...
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neandrewthal



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Any talk of alternative chips/projects would greatly interest me too. I'm basically looking for a DIY version of the Blacet Time Machine since it's out of production.
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Time Machine used the MN3005, which has long since been out of production, and they can cost you a pretty penny (Small Bear has them). IIRC, John Blacet would actually select them - seems to me he would sell the MN3005s that worked pretty well for long echo effects, but couldn't quite wind up fast enough to get the short delays he accomplished with the Time Machine.

Some Panasonic BBDs have been "second sourced" (cloned) by foundries in China. Shanghai Belling, to be specific. Sadly, none of the higher voltage devices (MN30XX) have been cloned, but rather the second generation lower voltage devices (MN320X) have been. The only three that I'm aware of are clones of the MN3207 (1024 Stage), MN3208 (2048 Stage) and, most recently, the MN3205 (4096 Stage), which is the low voltage equivalent of the MN3005.

Small Bear carries all three - the BL3207, BL3208 and V3205.

Having harped on the low voltage vs high voltage BBDs, that doesn't mean the low voltage ones won't do the job - it takes a bit more finagling AFAIC. My Dim C uses 3207s, and I'm much more than extremely pleased with how it came out.

Also, you'll notice that the spec'ed clock frequency range of these devices is fairly low. Actually, don't let that datasheet fool you. I've clocked the MN3207 close to 1 MHz with no ill effect. The trick is that you have to use something other than the MN3102 to buffer and clock it, or buffer the MN3102. Without a buffer, once you get much past 200 kHz, the crisp pulses of the clock will begin to slew due to the capacitance of the load. It is very important for these waveforms to remain nice and crisp, and that they rise and fall at the proper time (the clock waveforms, as I'm sure you are aware, are a set of complementary waves).

I played with a clock circuit from the Morley Sapphire circuit that would do the trick, with some component changes. In fact, if Uncle K happens across this, he might know more about it - seems to me he got fairly deep into one of those schemes anyway, if not the Sapphire.

John Blacet definitely wound those MN3005s up pretty tight, but I bet you could with the V3205. Well, maybe. Very Happy

Cheers,
Scott

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Peake



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've read on another site that the MXR "time delay" plastic footpedal houses one 4096, and that they appear on ebay from time to time. Black, plastic; one version has two knobs and another adds a tiny third knob between the two large.

Bubblechamber and I were up at Apex surplus (los angeles) today and they have a stash of these pedals out back, but lo, the delay IC and what looks to be a compader are removed from all of them. Terrible application of such a rare IC, so I wanted to tell about it here, so that any surviving chips could be used in a better design. Cheers.

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