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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Dim D
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What "chipset" would you like to see in a Dim D PCB
Original chips. They are still out there.
76%
 76%  [ 38 ]
Low voltage BBDs - easier to get, probably more noisy. Takes longer to design.
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
Make a PCB that allows both options. Will be more expensive (more PCB area required!), and will take the longest to design.
14%
 14%  [ 7 ]
Not interested. (Who needs a Dim D? And isn't there another Dim D project on the way?!)
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 50

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funkyfarm



Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Posts: 583
Location: France
Audio files: 3

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.modezero.com/roland-dimension-D.htm

such a big pcb and only four switches...I'd take two sets !

however I don't understand the difference between Bypass and Off switch.

On your version, will there be no OUTPUT LEVEL led indicator, right ?

And I don't understand if it will possible to have it with 4 preset-switches plus RATE and DEPTH potentiometers ; via a fifth switch ? Smile
Switches are just carrefully selected settings of RATE and DEPTH from the internal lfo ? no control over mixing/inverting/filtering or else ?

thank you
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
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Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

funkyfarm wrote:
http://www.modezero.com/roland-dimension-D.htm

such a big pcb and only four switches...I'd take two sets !

however I don't understand the difference between Bypass and Off switch.


Off is a soft bypass, with the signal still running thru the direct path electronics, just the BBD path turned off.

Bypass is a hard bypass, with the signal routed competely around the whole device. (If you go for balanced inputs and outputs, you need an 8 pole, 2 throw switch.)

Quote:
On your version, will there be no OUTPUT LEVEL led indicator, right ?


Not decided yet. It's hard to understand why you would need it, with compander and all.

Quote:
And I don't understand if it will possible to have it with 4 preset-switches plus RATE and DEPTH potentiometers ; via a fifth switch ? Smile
Switches are just carrefully selected settings of RATE and DEPTH from the internal lfo ? no control over mixing/inverting/filtering or else ?


No. On the main board, there will be the preset settings, like the original has. (LFO1)
On the BBD board, there's a second LFO, with voltage controlled depth and rate. (LFO2)

If you're using the BBD board as a standalone chorus, you have LFO1. There you can either have potentiometers and CV input jacks to control LFO1, or you can switch between a set of trimpots (off board) for presets.

For a Dim D (Main board and BBD board), the BBDs are controlled by LFO2 (presets, main board) LFO signals are routed betweeen boards just liketh eausio signal is.. You just leave the controls for LFO1 open to disable it on the BBD board.

But there is more: You can use *both* LFOs at the same time. Like, adding a tiny bit of fast modulation from LFO1 to the Dim D preset modulation from LFO2, for some extra "shimmer".

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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funkyfarm



Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Posts: 583
Location: France
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Amazing. This will be a real bad project !

Quote:
String Filter (with PCBs)
Triple Chorus (to emulate a Solina (TM) ) (with PCBs)
Frequency Shifter FS-1A (with PCBs)
Compact Clone "Schulze / TD / Krautrock Phaser" (with PCB)
Redesign of Tau Pipe Flanger/Phaser (with PCBs)
Interpolating Scanner
Scanner Chorus/Vibrato


what a list !
maybe one day you'll run out of ideas...
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BBD Board prototype PCB is on its way to me from Olimex.
Also, received HA1457 opamps from smallbear some days ago.
I'll test that BBD board in standalone mode, and then proceed with designing the Dim D main board.

JH.

Now playing: Popol Vuh, In den Gaerten Pharaos

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This was in the mail today!

(BBD board only, so don't get overly excited yet. Smile )

JH.


jh_dim_td_bbd_board_preview.jpg
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_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Norman Phay



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Now playing: Popol Vuh, In den Gaerten Pharaos


This is a great record, and Popol Vuh were one of the most outstanding bands of the 1970's, I think. "Das Hohelied Salomos" is my favourite of theirs.
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jhaible



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Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Norman Phay wrote:
jhaible wrote:
Now playing: Popol Vuh, In den Gaerten Pharaos


This is a great record, and Popol Vuh were one of the most outstanding bands of the 1970's, I think. "Das Hohelied Salomos" is my favourite of theirs.


My favorite is "Seligpreisung", followed by the Nosferatu and Cobra Verde soundtracks.

News about the Dim D:
Tested the BBD board (which is one half of the Dim D project) - works great.
Tested with TL071 / 072 opamps so far. Will test with HA1457 soon.

JH.

Now playing: Vangelis, Earth.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

Tested the BBD board (which is one half of the Dim D project) - works great.
Tested with TL071 / 072 opamps so far. Will test with HA1457 soon.


... and it works with HA1457W's too, so I guess I got the footprints right. Smile

Which means, you'll be able to either build that effect using vintage NOS SIL package HA1457W chips, or TL071 / TL072 chips.
When you're using sockets, you can try what you like best.
The 47pF compensation caps for the HA1457W's are on the PCB, too.
(automatically disconnected when no HA1457's are in the SIL sockets)

Moving on to design the Main Board now.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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kokoon



Joined: Jan 09, 2006
Posts: 158
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

great news, i can't wait!
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haima



Joined: Jul 25, 2008
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'm very glad you are doing this jürgen!

i can't wait! Cool
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've started a web page for this project:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/subtle_chorus/jh_subtle_chorus.html

It's called "Subtle Chorus".

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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b-funk



Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Posts: 186
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i´m really excited about this project... it´s gonna be huge!!!
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PrimateSynthesis



Joined: May 02, 2008
Posts: 69
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This sounds great, and I'm down for whatever, but I'm a bit confused as to what the Main board does. Is it just a special type of LFO??

Also, is it possible to do a Juno 60/106 emulation with these boards, and has anyone figured out what would be required to do that?? Having specific "I" and "II" presets might be a desirable feature, but I would be happy if I could get the same sound with knob settings.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PrimateSynthesis wrote:
This sounds great, and I'm down for whatever, but I'm a bit confused as to what the Main board does. Is it just a special type of LFO??


And the filtering, the cross-feeding, preset selection, power supply, balanced in/out.

Quote:
Also, is it possible to do a Juno 60/106 emulation with these boards, and has anyone figured out what would be required to do that?? Having specific "I" and "II" presets might be a desirable feature, but I would be happy if I could get the same sound with knob settings.


One should be able to get close to this, however, how close, I cannot say yet.
Presets will be easy, that's for sure, as the LFO has VC depth and VC rate, sou you just need a set of trimpots and some switches to choose between them.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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filterstein



Joined: Mar 17, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

or perhaps combine it with your solina chorus clone
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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So if we wanted to use the HA1457W it would take the place of all the TL072s & TL071s on the board? Looking at your component layout (http://www.jhaible.heim.at/subtle_chorus/jh_subtle_chorus_BBD_Board_PCB_values.pdf) that would be 6, right (1 for each of the 71s and 2 for each of the 72s)?

Is this the right part - http://www.smallbearelec.com/Categories.bok?sfs=f9a155b9 - says it's an 8-pin chip and from what I've read this is a 7-pin chip, so just want to make sure. I figure these are ok and maybe it's mislabeled on his site, because you mention ordering yours from small bear as well.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

numbertalk wrote:
So if we wanted to use the HA1457W it would take the place of all the TL072s & TL071s on the board? Looking at your component layout (http://www.jhaible.heim.at/subtle_chorus/jh_subtle_chorus_BBD_Board_PCB_values.pdf) that would be 6, right (1 for each of the 71s and 2 for each of the 72s)?

Is this the right part - http://www.smallbearelec.com/Categories.bok?sfs=f9a155b9 - says it's an 8-pin chip and from what I've read this is a 7-pin chip, so just want to make sure. I figure these are ok and maybe it's mislabeled on his site, because you mention ordering yours from small bear as well.


It's a 7-pin IC which fits into a SIL-8 (8-pin) footprint where one pin is missing.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

filterstein wrote:
or perhaps combine it with your solina chorus clone


I'm afraid these are entirely different things.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, ok. I did notice that on the footprint of your component layout but was thrown off by the description, but that makes sense now. Thanks.

jhaible wrote:
numbertalk wrote:
So if we wanted to use the HA1457W it would take the place of all the TL072s & TL071s on the board? Looking at your component layout (http://www.jhaible.heim.at/subtle_chorus/jh_subtle_chorus_BBD_Board_PCB_values.pdf) that would be 6, right (1 for each of the 71s and 2 for each of the 72s)?

Is this the right part - http://www.smallbearelec.com/Categories.bok?sfs=f9a155b9 - says it's an 8-pin chip and from what I've read this is a 7-pin chip, so just want to make sure. I figure these are ok and maybe it's mislabeled on his site, because you mention ordering yours from small bear as well.


It's a 7-pin IC which fits into a SIL-8 (8-pin) footprint where one pin is missing.

JH.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Subtle Chorus progress

Just wanted to let you all know that the Main board design is 95% finished, and it contains all I wanted to be there. That is, the complete signal path that was missing from the BBD board, with choice of vintage SIL package opamps or contemporary DIP package opams everywhere, and even the power transistors for the discrete balanced output stages, if you choose to use them. (You can easily replace the output stage with modern opamps that don't need extra power transistors, though.)

Power supply is on-board as well.
No LED bargraph driver, though. (You can get kits for such LED meters everywhere, and it should be on a separte PCB anyway. And IMO you can do well without any LED meter, too.)

Will go on to implement the remaining 5%, and then do extensive checking for errors. Then, prototype.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Glad that i'm not too late........( so much backlog, never had a look here.. )
How much HA1457 does i need for one Dim D ?


jhaible wrote:
No LED bargraph driver, though. (You can get kits for such LED meters everywhere,
JH.

where can i get a good one ?



btw.: a Friend and i patched today a Bassguitar thru my two Tau phasers and we got very nice and subtile chorus effects.
so i'm really Ear when it's the speaking about "subtile Chorus".
I was jsut wow......( I don't know all those vintage effects )
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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was wondering how many HA1457Ws for the main board myself. Any other special/hard to find parts to note for the main board?

Thanks!
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

numbertalk wrote:
I was wondering how many HA1457Ws for the main board myself. Any other special/hard to find parts to note for the main board?

Thanks!


12 of them.
But remember: you don't actually _need_ them.
I'm pretty convinced that you can get the same magical chorus effect using modern opamps - the opamps are not where the magic is.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Update: Main Board design finished

I've sent the Gerber data to Olimex for making a prototype PCB.
Let's hope this comes back ok - then maybe I can keep my promise to make the whole Subtle Chorus project available in 2008.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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kokoon



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

great news! can't wait!!!
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