electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » News... » Miscellaneous News
Some math behind "A Hard Day's Night (UPDATED)
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 2 [34 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2192
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:40 pm    Post subject: Some math behind "A Hard Day's Night (UPDATED) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://blog.wired.com/music/files/n-oct04-harddayjib.pdf


Here is a followup I received in an email from Dr Dobbs Journal- regarding the article. I didn't look to see if it was posted on their site.

Quote:

"Finally, in response to "Hard Day's Math," which prompted this thread, reader Ken Graham was kind enough to share the following tidbit about what I hope is the true story of the opening chord to a "Hard Day's Night":

Actually, in a story attributed to an interview with Joe Walsh, the first time Joe met George Harrison he played the first few bars of "Hard Day's Night." George asked Joe how he learned to play that beginning so well. Joe said that it took a lot of practice and improvising a non-standard fingering for one of the guitar chords. To which George was reported to have said, "That's amazing, because we cheated. We restrung two of my 12 string guitars and Paul played the top 6 strings on one guitar and I played the bottom 6 strings on the other."

Thanks Ken.

-- Jonathan Erickson
jerickson@ddj.com

_________________
Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home.

Last edited by cappy2112 on Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3620
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 255
G2 patch files: 95

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Brilliant! Laughing

/Stefan

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2192
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:
Brilliant! Laughing

/Stefan


Yeah- I thought it was quite clever

_________________
Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
seraph
Editor
Editor


Joined: Jun 21, 2003
Posts: 12056
Location: Firenze, Italy
Audio files: 31
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I read it all Shocked
_________________
homepage - blog - forum - youtube

Quote:
Politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex - Frank Zappa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3620
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 255
G2 patch files: 95

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I doesn't mention if anyone bothered to simply ask Paul or George (Martin), what they played. Or, for that matter, John or George (Harrison) back when it was possible. A fun exercise anyway.

/Stefan

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4504
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It still is one of the icons in music. Just hear the chord and you'll know. And now I'm playing those records again and again today...
Thanks Wink

Wout
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2192
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
It still is one of the icons in music. Just hear the chord and you'll know. And now I'm playing those records again and again today...
Thanks Wink

Wout


This reminds me- I still haven't read that book "Recording The Beatles" yet- it's very thick and heavy, but it should be filled with lots of interesting details.

_________________
Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20284
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 143
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Could someone post a one second sample of that chord? ... I never noticed anything special about that song's beginning Embarassed
_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2192
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:23 am    Post subject: Re: Some math behind "A Hard Day's Night (UPDATED) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
http://blog.wired.com/music/files/n-oct04-harddayjib.pdf


Here is a followup I received in an email from Dr Dobbs Journal- regarding the article. I didn't look to see if it was posted on their site.

Quote:

"Finally, in response to "Hard Day's Math," which prompted this thread, reader Ken Graham was kind enough to share the following tidbit about what I hope is the true story of the opening chord to a "Hard Day's Night":

Actually, in a story attributed to an interview with Joe Walsh, the first time Joe met George Harrison he played the first few bars of "Hard Day's Night." George asked Joe how he learned to play that beginning so well. Joe said that it took a lot of practice and improvising a non-standard fingering for one of the guitar chords. To which George was reported to have said, "That's amazing, because we cheated. We restrung two of my 12 string guitars and Paul played the top 6 strings on one guitar and I played the bottom 6 strings on the other."

Thanks Ken.

-- Jonathan Erickson
jerickson@ddj.com



If the Beatles used Rickenbacker 12-string electrics, these 12-string guitars have the their octave strings placed above the primary strings instead of below. This produces that characteristic sound that can also be heard in some songs by The Byrds, Tom Petty, because the octave string is strummed before the primary string.

I don't remember seeing any pictures of the Beatles holding 12-string guitars though.

_________________
Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2192
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Could someone post a one second sample of that chord? ... I never noticed anything special about that song's beginning Embarassed


My ears don't hear it either.


HDN_intro.wav
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  HDN_intro.wav
 Filesize:  1.01 MB
 Downloaded:  625 Time(s)


_________________
Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4504
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Normally a 12 string has this set up, when hitting the strings downwards, which is along with gravity, not pitch Wink
oct E - E - oct A - A - oct D - D - oct G - G - B - B - E - E.
Rickenbacker changed it in
E - oct E - A - oct A - D - oct D - G - oct G - B - B - E - E.
Many times the oct G is replaced by G, because of snapping to early and to keep the high E the highest sounding note, although it 'rings' less bright.

Roger McQuinn saw the Rickenbacker 12 string played by George Harrison in a TV registration and wondered where the six tuning pegs where hidden he didn't saw. (Or was it the other way around? - Can't find the books now Smile)

Wout

BTW Jan, that chord stands for the sound of the sixties, just like 'Hokus Pokus, iedereen kan to-veren' stands for the Belgium/Dutch music of 2000 Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4504
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
My ears don't hear it either.
You're kidding... Shocked

Wout
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
seraph
Editor
Editor


Joined: Jun 21, 2003
Posts: 12056
Location: Firenze, Italy
Audio files: 31
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
...wondered where the six tuning pegs where hidden he didn't saw...


Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Shocked

_________________
homepage - blog - forum - youtube

Quote:
Politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex - Frank Zappa

Last edited by seraph on Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:03 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4504
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep, I know, but Roger (or Jim) didn't knew then Smile
Is this guitar yours?

Anyway, The Beatles are White Epiphone - Rickenbacker 12 string - Hofner Violin Bass and Ludwig drums... playing on Vox amplifiers. How often is a picture burned into your brains? Fender Stratocaster and Jimi Hendrix? Gibson SG and Frank Zappa? Brian Jones and the Vox guitar?

Did I ever told the joke about Keith Moon in Heaven...?

Wout
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
seraph
Editor
Editor


Joined: Jun 21, 2003
Posts: 12056
Location: Firenze, Italy
Audio files: 31
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:

Is this guitar yours?
Did I ever told the joke about Keith Moon in Heaven...?

no to both questions Wink

_________________
homepage - blog - forum - youtube

Quote:
Politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex - Frank Zappa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2192
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
cappy2112 wrote:
My ears don't hear it either.
You're kidding... Shocked

Wout


I guess it's the "over 40 freq. rolloff" thing Wink

_________________
Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2192
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:


and wondered where the six tuning pegs where hidden he didn't saw. (Or was it the other way around? - Can't find the books now Smile)

BTW Jan, that chord stands for the sound of the sixties, just like 'Hokus Pokus, iedereen kan to-veren' stands for the Belgium/Dutch music of 2000 Wink


BC Rich have an innovative way of dealing with "the other 4 tuning pegs" on their 10-string Rich Bich guitar. These a re located at the other end of the guitar- near the bridge. http://www.bcrich.com/bichR.html

_________________
Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4504
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah...
It's like The Rolling Stones who want to have a heavy guitar sound, which made them, together with their lead vocalist, famous, BTW. Removing the bass E string allowed much heavier equalizing...

Wout
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2192
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
Normally a 12 string has this set up, when hitting the strings downwards, which is along with gravity, not pitch Wink
oct E - E - oct A - A - oct D - D - oct G - G - B - B - E - E.
Rickenbacker changed it in
E - oct E - A - oct A - D - oct D - G - oct G - B - B - E - E.

Wout



Oops- I got that one backwards Embarassed

_________________
Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3620
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 255
G2 patch files: 95

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
Wout Blommers wrote:
...wondered where the six tuning pegs where hidden he didn't saw...


(picture)

Shocked


Mmm, love that wood layout. It looks the same on my precious 330. love Clever, those extra tuners.

/Stefan

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20284
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 143
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
My ears don't hear it either.


Thanks for posting Tony, now that I hear it I do remember ... but the specialty must have a cultural reason Laughing

_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20284
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 143
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
'Hokus Pokus, iedereen kan to-veren' stands for the Belgium/Dutch music of 2000 Wink


Hocus pocus focus thinking I know that one Exclamation but that was surely long before 2000 ... more like 1970 but erm .. there is no need here I think to post a one second sample Wink

_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2192
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Wout Blommers wrote:
'Hokus Pokus, iedereen kan to-veren' stands for the Belgium/Dutch music of 2000 Wink


Hocus pocus focus thinking I know that one Exclamation but that was surely long before 2000 ... more like 1970 but erm .. there is no need here I think to post a one second sample Wink


Is that group Dutch??
I thought the name of the song was "Hocus Pocus", and the group was Focus

_________________
Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3830
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like the idea they managed to get a grant for the paper, nice one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bugfight



Joined: Aug 02, 2007
Posts: 188
Location: Arlington, TX USA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpV5InLw52U
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 2 [34 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » News... » Miscellaneous News
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
mps board

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use