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Some math behind "A Hard Day's Night (UPDATED)
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:40 pm    Post subject: Some math behind "A Hard Day's Night (UPDATED) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://blog.wired.com/music/files/n-oct04-harddayjib.pdf


Here is a followup I received in an email from Dr Dobbs Journal- regarding the article. I didn't look to see if it was posted on their site.

Quote:

"Finally, in response to "Hard Day's Math," which prompted this thread, reader Ken Graham was kind enough to share the following tidbit about what I hope is the true story of the opening chord to a "Hard Day's Night":

Actually, in a story attributed to an interview with Joe Walsh, the first time Joe met George Harrison he played the first few bars of "Hard Day's Night." George asked Joe how he learned to play that beginning so well. Joe said that it took a lot of practice and improvising a non-standard fingering for one of the guitar chords. To which George was reported to have said, "That's amazing, because we cheated. We restrung two of my 12 string guitars and Paul played the top 6 strings on one guitar and I played the bottom 6 strings on the other."

Thanks Ken.

-- Jonathan Erickson
jerickson@ddj.com

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Antimon



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Brilliant! Laughing

/Stefan

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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:
Brilliant! Laughing

/Stefan


Yeah- I thought it was quite clever

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seraph
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I read it all Shocked
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Antimon



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I doesn't mention if anyone bothered to simply ask Paul or George (Martin), what they played. Or, for that matter, John or George (Harrison) back when it was possible. A fun exercise anyway.

/Stefan

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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It still is one of the icons in music. Just hear the chord and you'll know. And now I'm playing those records again and again today...
Thanks Wink

Wout
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
It still is one of the icons in music. Just hear the chord and you'll know. And now I'm playing those records again and again today...
Thanks Wink

Wout


This reminds me- I still haven't read that book "Recording The Beatles" yet- it's very thick and heavy, but it should be filled with lots of interesting details.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Could someone post a one second sample of that chord? ... I never noticed anything special about that song's beginning Embarassed
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:23 am    Post subject: Re: Some math behind "A Hard Day's Night (UPDATED) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
http://blog.wired.com/music/files/n-oct04-harddayjib.pdf


Here is a followup I received in an email from Dr Dobbs Journal- regarding the article. I didn't look to see if it was posted on their site.

Quote:

"Finally, in response to "Hard Day's Math," which prompted this thread, reader Ken Graham was kind enough to share the following tidbit about what I hope is the true story of the opening chord to a "Hard Day's Night":

Actually, in a story attributed to an interview with Joe Walsh, the first time Joe met George Harrison he played the first few bars of "Hard Day's Night." George asked Joe how he learned to play that beginning so well. Joe said that it took a lot of practice and improvising a non-standard fingering for one of the guitar chords. To which George was reported to have said, "That's amazing, because we cheated. We restrung two of my 12 string guitars and Paul played the top 6 strings on one guitar and I played the bottom 6 strings on the other."

Thanks Ken.

-- Jonathan Erickson
jerickson@ddj.com



If the Beatles used Rickenbacker 12-string electrics, these 12-string guitars have the their octave strings placed above the primary strings instead of below. This produces that characteristic sound that can also be heard in some songs by The Byrds, Tom Petty, because the octave string is strummed before the primary string.

I don't remember seeing any pictures of the Beatles holding 12-string guitars though.

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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Could someone post a one second sample of that chord? ... I never noticed anything special about that song's beginning Embarassed


My ears don't hear it either.


HDN_intro.wav
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  HDN_intro.wav
 Filesize:  1.01 MB
 Downloaded:  2348 Time(s)


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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Normally a 12 string has this set up, when hitting the strings downwards, which is along with gravity, not pitch Wink
oct E - E - oct A - A - oct D - D - oct G - G - B - B - E - E.
Rickenbacker changed it in
E - oct E - A - oct A - D - oct D - G - oct G - B - B - E - E.
Many times the oct G is replaced by G, because of snapping to early and to keep the high E the highest sounding note, although it 'rings' less bright.

Roger McQuinn saw the Rickenbacker 12 string played by George Harrison in a TV registration and wondered where the six tuning pegs where hidden he didn't saw. (Or was it the other way around? - Can't find the books now Smile)

Wout

BTW Jan, that chord stands for the sound of the sixties, just like 'Hokus Pokus, iedereen kan to-veren' stands for the Belgium/Dutch music of 2000 Wink
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
My ears don't hear it either.
You're kidding... Shocked

Wout
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seraph
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
...wondered where the six tuning pegs where hidden he didn't saw...


Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Shocked

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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep, I know, but Roger (or Jim) didn't knew then Smile
Is this guitar yours?

Anyway, The Beatles are White Epiphone - Rickenbacker 12 string - Hofner Violin Bass and Ludwig drums... playing on Vox amplifiers. How often is a picture burned into your brains? Fender Stratocaster and Jimi Hendrix? Gibson SG and Frank Zappa? Brian Jones and the Vox guitar?

Did I ever told the joke about Keith Moon in Heaven...?

Wout
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:

Is this guitar yours?
Did I ever told the joke about Keith Moon in Heaven...?

no to both questions Wink

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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
cappy2112 wrote:
My ears don't hear it either.
You're kidding... Shocked

Wout


I guess it's the "over 40 freq. rolloff" thing Wink

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:


and wondered where the six tuning pegs where hidden he didn't saw. (Or was it the other way around? - Can't find the books now Smile)

BTW Jan, that chord stands for the sound of the sixties, just like 'Hokus Pokus, iedereen kan to-veren' stands for the Belgium/Dutch music of 2000 Wink


BC Rich have an innovative way of dealing with "the other 4 tuning pegs" on their 10-string Rich Bich guitar. These a re located at the other end of the guitar- near the bridge. http://www.bcrich.com/bichR.html

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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah...
It's like The Rolling Stones who want to have a heavy guitar sound, which made them, together with their lead vocalist, famous, BTW. Removing the bass E string allowed much heavier equalizing...

Wout
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
Normally a 12 string has this set up, when hitting the strings downwards, which is along with gravity, not pitch Wink
oct E - E - oct A - A - oct D - D - oct G - G - B - B - E - E.
Rickenbacker changed it in
E - oct E - A - oct A - D - oct D - G - oct G - B - B - E - E.

Wout



Oops- I got that one backwards Embarassed

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
Wout Blommers wrote:
...wondered where the six tuning pegs where hidden he didn't saw...


(picture)

Shocked


Mmm, love that wood layout. It looks the same on my precious 330. love Clever, those extra tuners.

/Stefan

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
My ears don't hear it either.


Thanks for posting Tony, now that I hear it I do remember ... but the specialty must have a cultural reason Laughing

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
'Hokus Pokus, iedereen kan to-veren' stands for the Belgium/Dutch music of 2000 Wink


Hocus pocus focus thinking I know that one Exclamation but that was surely long before 2000 ... more like 1970 but erm .. there is no need here I think to post a one second sample Wink

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Wout Blommers wrote:
'Hokus Pokus, iedereen kan to-veren' stands for the Belgium/Dutch music of 2000 Wink


Hocus pocus focus thinking I know that one Exclamation but that was surely long before 2000 ... more like 1970 but erm .. there is no need here I think to post a one second sample Wink


Is that group Dutch??
I thought the name of the song was "Hocus Pocus", and the group was Focus

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like the idea they managed to get a grant for the paper, nice one.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpV5InLw52U
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