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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Dim D
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What "chipset" would you like to see in a Dim D PCB
Original chips. They are still out there.
76%
 76%  [ 38 ]
Low voltage BBDs - easier to get, probably more noisy. Takes longer to design.
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
Make a PCB that allows both options. Will be more expensive (more PCB area required!), and will take the longest to design.
14%
 14%  [ 7 ]
Not interested. (Who needs a Dim D? And isn't there another Dim D project on the way?!)
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 50

Author Message
kokoon



Joined: Jan 09, 2006
Posts: 158
Location: slovenia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'll order 2 sets in a few days, sorry for the delay.

i've been waiting for this so long!
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gavgomad



Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi JH and all,

I will fess up to being one of those who pushed hard for this project, but has not yet ordered (I will do that when I get home tonight and can send from the appropriate email address!)

I can only speak for myself on the delay, but for me I have been pondering the various "options" for construction on this one and it has taken time to reach a number of decisions.... For example, do I go for a full DT, or just a D? How am I going to implement the mode switches, and the switching between the D and T mode (I like my surplus Schadow Digitasts - nice and Oberheimey panels!!)

I sincerely hope you won't be discouraged on this one.... I am sure that irrespective of market panic and other factors, everyone who follows your work knows that this is a project worth scraping and saving for!

As always, your hard work and effort are much appreciated!

Cheers,

Gav

PS. Although I still haven't figured out how to rig the switching yet, but I have decided to dive into a full DT.... Wink
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You're right - the documentation isn't as far as it probably should be.
But the task with the highest priority is to bring this project into the factory - otherwise there will be Christmas holidays, and we have to wait a lot longer ...

I hope the picture on top of this page
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/subtle_chorus/jh_subtle_chorus.html
explains what PCBs are needed for each option, at least.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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kokoon



Joined: Jan 09, 2006
Posts: 158
Location: slovenia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i don't think gavgomad meant he was confused with the options, i think he was having a hard time deciding what route to take.

like me.

my side: the "dim d" option seemed a sureshot, we were waiting for this a long time and now it's here. however, after hearing the samples, i'm not that much sure anymore. the dim d option maybe sounds a bit too ringy for my needs. like... it resonates more than i expected it to. it's probably my fault, i've never heard the original. i just thought it would be more subtle. not that i don't like it, it's just not exactly what i expected. also, the feedback can be probably toned down with a turn of trimpot.

the 2xtau option, on the other hand... it sounds better and better every time i hear the samples. it's a really sweet effect, subtle yet rich.

but it's that more expensive.

and if we order at least a pair of the taus, we save on the shipping... so the best option is probably the full "dim td"...

hard to decide. but i will decide and then order some Smile
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loopcycle



Joined: Nov 06, 2006
Posts: 98
Location: California

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i was mulling the options over as well. ive now ordered the boards for the dim D.
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gavgomad



Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just to clarify, kokoon is right - not knocking your docs, JH!!! ;-P

There are so many considerations on this project - Dimension clone? Dim T? Both? Manual LFO or Mode Preset? Manual LFO AND Mode Preset?

As for the switching, I always thought that would fall in my backyard to figure out anyway.... It looks like the three main parameters are FET switched anyway, if I read correctly. Accordingly, I may simply wire up momentary switches / LEDs for the three parameters, and I can come up with the mode permutations manually. As I say, I am addicted to the black digitast look - nothing is more beautiful than my OB-8! Wink

For me, a large part of whether I was going to go for the full D/T was how smoothly I could implement the switching between the two.... I am willing to take the leap of faith though, and MAKE it work!! Wink

Kokoon.... I wouldn't rule out the Dimension D.... You may be hearing some MP3 artifacts.... It is a VERY smooth effect, if I had to pick one word.... If you're thinking Dim-T, then brave it and go for the BBD board as well - if nothing else, you can use it on its own as a high-end Juno type chorus.

Once again, thanks for all your hard work JH! Wink

Gav.
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The Alison Project



Joined: Jul 21, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I ordered 2 sets of the Dim TD because I do not want to see this project die, but I am hoping it roles early next year instead of December just for cash reasons,,,, Christmas is always tight...
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
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Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Alison Project wrote:
I ordered 2 sets of the Dim TD because I do not want to see this project die, but I am hoping it roles early next year instead of December just for cash reasons,,,, Christmas is always tight...


Oh, it's probably dangerous to say this, but anyway:
I don't "enforce" the money when the boards are here.
I try to get enough pre-orders to place the PCBs at the factory.
When I have the PCBs, I send invoices.
When I get the money, I send out your PCB within a few days.
If I get the money in January or February, that's ok, too, and I'll send the PCBs then.
Only crucial point: I must have enough pre-orders to confidently place that order at the factory. Just ordering a few, then seeing the project being sold out, then ordering another few, will make no one happy, as factory prices increase dramatically with smaller quantities.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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The Alison Project



Joined: Jul 21, 2006
Posts: 187
Location: Canada
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

Oh, it's probably dangerous to say this, but anyway:
I don't "enforce" the money when the boards are here.
I try to get enough pre-orders to place the PCBs at the factory.
When I have the PCBs, I send invoices.
When I get the money, I send out your PCB within a few days.
If I get the money in January or February, that's ok, too, and I'll send the PCBs then.
Only crucial point: I must have enough pre-orders to confidently place that order at the factory. Just ordering a few, then seeing the project being sold out, then ordering another few, will make no one happy, as factory prices increase dramatically with smaller quantities.
JH.


Thanks, that makes me feel better. I have picked up all your projects so far and don't intend to take forever to send payment.

Now hopefully enough orders come thru to make this project happen, cause I love Chorus effects and still hope to see a CE-1 project in the future.

Chris

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kokoon wrote:
however, after hearing the samples, i'm not that much sure anymore. the dim d option maybe sounds a bit too ringy for my needs.


I think much of the Dim D's subtle-ness is ascribed to the lack of overly prominent movement in the chorus'ed sound.
If the effect is still not subtle enough, that's easy to cure with simply mixing it with the dry signal. (I think the Dim D is often put into a send/return loop on mixing desks for that reason.)
In my diy version, you could simply insert a potentiometer between the Main Board and the BBD board, and so adjust the effect strength from zero to maximum.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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ach_gott



Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 79
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I, for one, am quite excited about the Dim D project and would happily pay a bit more if you can't get the economies of scale going for a full-blown run.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for all your support and for the pre-orders I've got.

I've placed that order at the factory - for about 4 times the quantity that I have orders so far. Smile

Now, on to doing work on documenting the various options, writing BOMs, and so on.

(Maybe I'll even find the time to build one unit for myself ...)

JH.

Now playing: Alanis Morissette, Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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kokoon



Joined: Jan 09, 2006
Posts: 158
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

phew! Smile
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ach_gott



Joined: Sep 09, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Big smiles on my end, too. Very Happy
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've put up new documents - component overlays for different versions (AC or DC power supply, Vintage Version, TL072 version):

http://www.jhaible.heim.at/subtle_chorus/jh_subtle_chorus.html

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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urbanscallywag



Joined: Nov 30, 2007
Posts: 317
Location: sometimes

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JH, I saw your message on AH regarding small numbers of preorders. I was one of the people who you suspected thought there would be boards available even if they didn't preorder. Sorry for the assumption, I will send you my preorder this weekend.
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gavgomad



Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I too am soooo glad that this project will be proceeding....

Thanks again, JH, for your hard work! I for one will be diligently seeking homes for those other boards (although as my Dim D/T will be a formidable weapon in my studio, I am soooo tempted to keep it a secret! ;-P)

Cheers,

Gav.
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numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi JH,

After looking over the new documents I have a couple questions.

First, just making sure you could still build a main board with AC power and all non-vintage components *except* use HA1457Ws. I'm assuming this would be ok, but since you show a "vintage only" which is different from the AC Power Supply version, which you show using the TL072s, I wanted to make sure.

Also, you describe a "version without exotic components and 600 Ohms output impedance". I'm still a little foggy when it comes to impedance - what are the different impedance options for this build and how do you determine what you want to build? I'm planning to build the TD version, using the HA1457Ws, AC power and no other "exotic" components.

Thanks!
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

numbertalk wrote:
Hi JH,

After looking over the new documents I have a couple questions.

First, just making sure you could still build a main board with AC power and all non-vintage components *except* use HA1457Ws. I'm assuming this would be ok, but since you show a "vintage only" which is different from the AC Power Supply version, which you show using the TL072s, I wanted to make sure.

Also, you describe a "version without exotic components and 600 Ohms output impedance". I'm still a little foggy when it comes to impedance - what are the different impedance options for this build and how do you determine what you want to build? I'm planning to build the TD version, using the HA1457Ws, AC power and no other "exotic" components.

Thanks!


AC vs. DC power and vintage vs modern opamps are completely independent of each other. I just didn't draw every combination.

Output impedance: The original Dim D has HA1457W opamps plus power transistors, and can drive a cable with low output impedance. (no series resistor required)
I tried the same configuration with TL072 and power transistors, but then the circuit tends to oscillate from cable capacitance. (That was expected, with TL072 opamps!) So, you can still build a simple TL072 stage without power transistors, and a 620 Ohm series resistor before you go out to the cable.
I bet there are hundreds of other possibilities as well - modern opamps that can drive capacitive load with much smaller, or even zero, series resistance.
But TL072 + 620 Ohm, and HA1457W + power transistors are the two options I'm documenting.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

But TL072 + 620 Ohm, and HA1457W + power transistors are the two options I'm documenting.


What would you predict for a HA1457 *minus* power transistors? Does a HA1457W + 620 Ohm seem reasonable?
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

numbertalk wrote:
jhaible wrote:

But TL072 + 620 Ohm, and HA1457W + power transistors are the two options I'm documenting.


What would you predict for a HA1457 *minus* power transistors? Does a HA1457W + 620 Ohm seem reasonable?


Should be no problem!

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Should be no problem!


Great - thanks!
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Got news from the factory: production has started for Main board and BBD board yesterday!

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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whomper



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

Looking at the BBD board, I notice it is built towards a true stereo device.
In order to push one input to the two paths, is it just a matter of a simple toggle switch?

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

whomper wrote:
Hi,

Looking at the BBD board, I notice it is built towards a true stereo device.
In order to push one input to the two paths, is it just a matter of a simple toggle switch?


You mean, sending a mono input to both channels?

Sure - that can be done with a simple switch.
Or with a normalized jack.

If you're using the BBD board together with the Main board, there is electronic switching: a pair of FETs choosing mono or stereo input.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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