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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Living VCOs
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Would you prefer one PCB with 3 VCOs a la JH-5A, or 1 VCO per PCB with more features
One PCB with Oscillator Driver and 3 VCO cores (like JH-5A - cheap!)
60%
 60%  [ 62 ]
1 PCB = 1 VCO (with many waveforms and inputs)
39%
 39%  [ 40 ]
Total Votes : 102

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:09 pm    Post subject: Living VCOs Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I got several requests for a VCO like I have in my JH-5, something that doesn't have the focus on precision but on character, with "linear detuning", and some of that early Moog and EMS character (without being a clone):
http://jhaible.heim.at/jh5/jh5.html

The main reason why I hesitated so long was as simple as it was embarrassing: I couln't find my design documents - I must have lost them in moving houses some years ago. The prospect was that'd I'd have to reverse-engineer my own prototype if I wanted to offer a PCB for this ...

But some days ago, I found my PSpice simulation files, which show the main parts of the VCO and VCO driver circuits in a form that must be very close to what I've actually built in the JH-5.

So, suddenly the possibility is there ...

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)

Last edited by jhaible on Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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synthetic



Joined: Jun 02, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, please. I've been searching for something like this. I'm in for two or three boards depending on cost.
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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm interested. Are we talking one VCO per board or more?

Romeo
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

woohoo
i have been hoping this would happen

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vtl5c3 wrote:
I'm interested. Are we talking one VCO per board or more?

Romeo


At the moment, we're just talking about a possibility. Smile
I don't have any specific plans yet.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds interesting. Definitely curious.
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guitarfool



Joined: Feb 26, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow - great news! I'd be up for doing several. I have been planning on doing the "linear detune SEM VCO mod" (from Roy Tate's website) on a couple of MOTM 310's (since they're basically the same topology), but this would be better Very Happy
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machine.cuisine



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can never turn down a VCO - especially a "living" one. You have my support.
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johans121



Joined: Jun 19, 2007
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Location: Memphis, TN (USA)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As long as I have money to blow, you'll continue to receive it Wink
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aerogramma



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

definetely interested

would be nice to hear also crude samples, without reverb

Wink
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fluxmonkey



Joined: Jun 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

as always, I'm in... put me down for 4. you're a hero.

bbob

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Scott Stites
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Janitor


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd also like to hear crude samples, with reverb! Very Happy
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frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

aerogramma wrote:
would be nice to hear also crude samples, without reverb

I've been asking for that for months, as well as for demos of the ARP VCO that is supposed to be "shrill".

Why do you suppose no one is willing to do this? scratch scratch

Very Happy

Ian
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djthomaswhite



Joined: Nov 22, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd like to build this as well. 3 in one rack with Vernier dials like on your JH-5
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yusynth



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Jurgen

I have a design question concerning this constant Hz offset that I think is very interesting. I know the schematic you designed for the SEM VCO using an extra cap in series with the VCO timing capacitor.

If say the VCO has a classical servo OPAmp exponential current converter, could it be that by simply adding an offfset voltage on the lin FM input of the servo circuit (the inverting input of the OPA) one could get the same effect or is there an obvious difference with what you proposed ?

Thanks in advance

Yves

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yusson wrote:
Hi Jurgen

I have a design question concerning this constant Hz offset that I think is very interesting. I know the schematic you designed for the SEM VCO using an extra cap in series with the VCO timing capacitor.

If say the VCO has a classical servo OPAmp exponential current converter, could it be that by simply adding an offfset voltage on the lin FM input of the servo circuit (the inverting input of the OPA) one could get the same effect or is there an obvious difference with what you proposed ?

Thanks in advance

Yves


Yes, there's a difference.
(And the new implementation isn't like that SEM modification either.)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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yusynth



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Yes, there's a difference.
(And the new implementation isn't like that SEM modification either.)

Shocked I am even more intrigued !
Can you tell us what is the benefit of your design compared to what I was referring to in my previous message ? I am definitely interested...
:

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yusson wrote:
jhaible wrote:
Yes, there's a difference.
(And the new implementation isn't like that SEM modification either.)

Shocked I am even more intrigued !
Can you tell us what is the benefit of your design compared to what I was referring to in my previous message ? I am definitely interested...
:


I don't think that a voltage offset in the servo loop causes what I mean with linear detuning. (I think it causes linear FM.)

I should have found a better word for what I mean, many years ago, I know.
"Linear" refers to the behaviour of Linear (V/Hz) VCOs, not to linear FM in exponential VCOs.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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yusynth



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
"Linear" refers to the behaviour of Linear (V/Hz) VCOs, not to linear FM in exponential VCOs.


Hi again Jurgen,

Pardon my ignorance but checking the MS20 VCO which operates as a linear V/Hz VCO, the keyboard CV and V/Hz input is directed to that very point (inverting input of IC3) ? I'd conclude that using a voltage offset would create a constant Hz offset, wouldn't I ? Do I misunderstand something ?

[EDIT] Ok I think I get the difference, the V/OCT input somehow modifies the range of offset from the linear modulation, the modulation stays linear but its extents is modified by the V/OCT input. And say if I increase from 1V on the V/OCT input this will double the range of the linear modulation... Thus a constant offset on the linear input will not result in a constant frequency offset if I apply 1V on the V/OCT input. Am I right ?
[/EDIT]

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Last edited by yusynth on Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:59 am; edited 2 times in total
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yusynth



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK I ruled out the linear FM input.

The only other solution I foresee is to have a second current source/sink to feed the timing cap. This second source (or sink) being linearly controlled by an offset voltage. Thus the time cap receives the sum of the currents from the expo converter and from the linear current source.

Is it something like that ?

Yves

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yusson wrote:
OK I ruled out the linear FM input.

The only other solution I foresee is to have a second current source/sink to feed the timing cap. This second source (or sink) being linearly controlled by an offset voltage. Thus the time cap receives the sum of the currents from the expo converter and from the linear current source.

Is it something like that ?

Yves


Smile

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Electronicant



Joined: Feb 23, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I´m in for 2-3 of these.
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

johans121 wrote:
As long as I have money to blow, you'll continue to receive it Wink

Laughing
i'm in the same boat
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There is a probable possibility probably that i will buy several from u Juergen
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vtl5c3 wrote:
I'm interested. Are we talking one VCO per board or more?

Romeo


That's a good question.
Depends on how many waveforms you need.
In the JH-5, there's only saw and pulse (with PWM) and one Oscillator Driver controlling 3 VCO cores. This can be very compact. Maybe (maybe!) 3 VCOs on a single 27 Euro PCB.
If you want full fledged VCOs with all waveforms and all kind of modulation inputs, it's probably one VCO per board.

Is there a way to add a poll on a thread that's already in use?

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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