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Pehr
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 1307 Location: Björkvik, Sweden
Audio files: 2
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:36 am Post subject:
Q960 clone light Subject description: ideas |
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Of what I have seen, the Q960 Sequential Controller seems really awesome.
What I really like about it is the skip step function.
So, why do I not buy one? Well, despite the low $ currency, it is too expensive for a poor meteorologist like me...
I've been wondering how it would be possible to make a sort of 'clone' of it, or perhaps better words for it is a light version.
What I'm after is:
* 8 or 16 steps with pitch setting for each step.
* Gate on/off for each step
* skip step for each step
I have not made any schematics or block-schematics yet, but I have some ideas.
If one use a CD4029 counter as a core and let it drive a CD4067 for the steps (up to 16 if you like). Wouldn't it be possible to check the skip switch at each step, and if it is set to skip, the CD4029 is jammed to the next step (with the jam inputs) that is not set to skip? (oh, what a nice sentence )
If I'm not totally wrong here it could easily be done with logic chips to check the skip function.
Any ideas? _________________ YouTube channel
flickr photostream
http://loxodrom.blogspot.com
http://www.garageband.com/artist/loxodrom
http://soundcloud.com/loxodrom |
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Pehr
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 1307 Location: Björkvik, Sweden
Audio files: 2
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Danno Gee Ray
Joined: Sep 25, 2005 Posts: 1351 Location: Telford, PA USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject:
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Pehr wrote: | thanks everybody! |
Funny to say this but...Absolutely glad to have done nothing at all to help you and or make you happy....er, uh, You're welcome! |
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neandrewthal
Joined: May 11, 2007 Posts: 672 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject:
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Danno Gee Ray wrote: | Pehr wrote: | thanks everybody! |
Funny to say this but...Absolutely glad to have done nothing at all to help you and or make you happy....er, uh, You're welcome! |
Hey! Quit hogging all the glory. I did nothing too! _________________ " I went through quite a few trannies til I found one I liked" - Wild Zebra |
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Pehr
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 1307 Location: Björkvik, Sweden
Audio files: 2
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neandrewthal
Joined: May 11, 2007 Posts: 672 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:59 am Post subject:
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Ok, I finally have something to add, but I don't know how valuable it is
Ever since this thread popped up I've been drooling over the skip function and wishing I could add it to the MFOS seq in the backlog that's waiting to be built. I've come up with one way, and would appreciate some feedback on whether it sounds feasible or not.
Ok, so here's the plan. It involves changing the gate switches to on-off-on and adding a daughterboard. Would It work if I wired it up so that flipping the switch for a particular stage one direction causes the clock pulse that activates that stage to be doubled by a second one, in such quick succession that you never even notice that the stage you want to skip was ever active? Flipping it the other direction would send the gate from that stage to the gate buss as normal. _________________ " I went through quite a few trannies til I found one I liked" - Wild Zebra |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:29 pm Post subject:
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Pehr wrote: | Or is it even more simple?
How about a 8-step 4013-shift register where the skip switch just shorts the active step to the next?
EDIT: Like the MFOS 8 Channel Expandable Analog Sequencer, where the Q output of one step either goes to the next stage or the next after that. I think I'll go for that sollution, thanks everybody! |
Hey Pehr. Did you work out the solution to the Skip function with Ray's CD4013 setup? I think I might have worked out the logic of the Skip using the FF's tonight at work. I then though remembered that the Moog Q960 used FF's for each step and had the Skip; Rest; Play (or something) switch steps. I'll have to find my Moog modular blueprints and see if there was a 960 in my former bud's machine.
I don't NEED the Skip function in my sequencers now as the function can be taken care of, but - I'd like to have it as WELL. Wondering if you've worked out the solution and if so - what it be. |
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neandrewthal
Joined: May 11, 2007 Posts: 672 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:58 am Post subject:
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Rykhaard wrote: |
I don't NEED the Skip function in my sequencers now as the function can be taken care of, but - I'd like to have it as WELL. Wondering if you've worked out the solution and if so - what it be. |
How do you take care of skip enternally? I NEED skip _________________ " I went through quite a few trannies til I found one I liked" - Wild Zebra |
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005 Posts: 875 Location: Swiss
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 5
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:44 am Post subject:
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my dreammachine is something like the Q960 with 20 steps !
Then you can have 4 steps skipped to get a 16step Sequenze
REALLY cool i mean !
it would be sooooooo great to have a Q980 ------------> 20stepper
The q960 uses ( waht i can read ):
74HC32 (3x) ( QUAD 2-INPUT OR GATE - ETC)
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/147760/ETC/74HC32.html
74HC74 (5x) (Dual D-type flip-flop with set and reset; positive-edge trigger )
http://category.alldatasheet.com/index.jsp?semiconductor=D-type
74HCT14 ( 4x ) ( Hex inverting schmitt trigger )
http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?sSearchword=74HCT14
this is a flip flop construction as the MFOs expandable 8stepper is, isn't it ?
btw.: the Q960 has skip/normal/stop/reset(as option) + inputjack and outputjack per step.
the main features for me are skip and reset inputs per step
On a 20 stpe ( or so) engine the reset inputs might be from less importance. I don't know. |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:44 am Post subject:
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neandrewthal wrote: | Rykhaard wrote: |
I don't NEED the Skip function in my sequencers now as the function can be taken care of, but - I'd like to have it as WELL. Wondering if you've worked out the solution and if so - what it be. |
How do you take care of skip enternally? I NEED skip |
My Quadatrix sequencers are driven by Bit input. 2 bits for the 4 step horizontal sequencers and 3 bits for the 8 step vertical sequencers. Using that stepping method, any step points in the sequencers can be played, whenever, depending on the bit input data.
(Any combination of horizontal and vertical sequencers can be chained together in serial format as well, for as long as forward and/or reverse playback choice, as desired.
Of course, I only HAVE 4 x horizontal 4 step sequencers at the moment, for 16 different steps, but ...... As soon as I build more of them, I'll have more steps, ability. )
The Q960 Skip function though, I really like it in IT's function. It'd be nice to have it, as well.
Studying Ray Wilson's expandable 8 step sequencer yesterday at lunch, it looks like it would be only a matter of hooking up the Q to D chains by switch, to determine whether the next step is 1, or 2 steps after Q. |
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neandrewthal
Joined: May 11, 2007 Posts: 672 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject:
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[quote="Rykhaard"] neandrewthal wrote: | Rykhaard wrote: |
I don't NEED the Skip function in my sequencers now as the function can be taken care of, but - I'd like to have it as WELL. Wondering if you've worked out the solution and if so - what it be. |
How do you take care of skip enternally? I NEED skip
My Quadatrix sequencers are driven by Bit input. 2 bits for the 4 step horizontal sequencers and 3 bits for the 8 step vertical sequencers. Using that stepping method, any step points in the sequencers can be played, whenever, depending on the bit input data.
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Now I want those too What do you use to drive them? I'm interested in learning about bit pattern generators to use in an upcoming 2 bit sequencer I'm designing. So far I've just got a 4516 which counts from 1-4, and reverse, but I'd love some wacky patterns as well _________________ " I went through quite a few trannies til I found one I liked" - Wild Zebra |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject:
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neandrewthal wrote: | Rykhaard wrote: |
My Quadatrix sequencers are driven by Bit input. 2 bits for the 4 step horizontal sequencers and 3 bits for the 8 step vertical sequencers. Using that stepping method, any step points in the sequencers can be played, whenever, depending on the bit input data.
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Now I want those too What do you use to drive them? I'm interested in learning about bit pattern generators to use in an upcoming 2 bit sequencer I'm designing. So far I've just got a 4516 which counts from 1-4, and reverse, but I'd love some wacky patterns as well |
I'm currently driving them with 2 of Ken Stone's original Master Divider (both extended from 6 bit divisions to 7 bit divisions) as well as 2 of his new Master Divider.
I have 1 of 2 planned, 1 input / 2 output VC'd switches built and still have to build the 2 input / 1 output VC switch. Those will both give much more mangling ability for which bits are going to where.
I can't rem'ber at the mo' whether I have the schematics for the sequencers up on my web page. If I don't, I'll get them and the PCB layouts uploaded to my Blog (which I'm now using, until I can remember the password, for allowing me to edit my web page again. )
As far as the Triggers / Gates, I'm currently using 3 of Ray Wilson's MFOS Sequencer, for driving them. (1 of which will soon be modded for an additional 64 steps, configurable through a Vertical sequencer in any combination of sets of 16 steps.) |
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neandrewthal
Joined: May 11, 2007 Posts: 672 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject:
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Rykhaard wrote: | neandrewthal wrote: | Rykhaard wrote: |
My Quadatrix sequencers are driven by Bit input. 2 bits for the 4 step horizontal sequencers and 3 bits for the 8 step vertical sequencers. Using that stepping method, any step points in the sequencers can be played, whenever, depending on the bit input data.
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Now I want those too What do you use to drive them? I'm interested in learning about bit pattern generators to use in an upcoming 2 bit sequencer I'm designing. So far I've just got a 4516 which counts from 1-4, and reverse, but I'd love some wacky patterns as well |
I'm currently driving them with 2 of Ken Stone's original Master Divider |
Oh, neat! So, to create for example, a linear 8 step sequence, you just patch the divide by 2, 4, and 8 to the 3 bit inputs. Then you could do it again with the 90 degree out of phase outputs, and mess around with what goes where using VC switches. That sounds exciting! Why aren't all sequencer made like that?
You know what else would go great with your setup? Instead of just 2-1 and 1-2 switches, some 2-2 switches _________________ " I went through quite a few trannies til I found one I liked" - Wild Zebra |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject:
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neandrewthal wrote: |
Oh, neat! So, to create for example, a linear 8 step sequence, you just patch the divide by 2, 4, and 8 to the 3 bit inputs. Then you could do it again with the 90 degree out of phase outputs, and mess around with what goes where using VC switches. That sounds exciting! Why aren't all sequencer made like that?
You know what else would go great with your setup? Instead of just 2-1 and 1-2 switches, some 2-2 switches |
Exactly! In 1 of my videos (IIRC), I have the 4 x 4 step horizontal sequencers chained together (passing the 2 bits THRU to the next 4 step; passing again THRU the next; etc.).
The outputs of them are cycled through, with the 3 bit vertical sequencer, to give me 16 steps.
Now - if the bit order is changed, with the 16 steps, you can get a far longer non-repeating pattern.
(And each step in the 4 step horizontals, use 12 position switches for 1V/oct. tuning. Same thing with the Octave version of the 4 step. The final version will have either 4 or 6 position rotaries. The 1 finished 4 step Octave, currently has 3 position rotaries.)
2 x 2 switch! YES! Definitely! Complete redirection of the 2 bits!
Once I have the 2nd 1 input / 2 output switch done, I'll be able to do that.
When I come to building the next set of Quadatrix sequencers, I'll more than likely include a few more switches, for redirecting the bits.
There'll be more video examples in the future. My main projects right now though are getting the Liquid HiHat testing finished for production and I'm working on the design for a completely new 'drum voice' as well. Keeping quiet about it though, until it's at least up to testing abilities.
And soon of course, the 64 step expansion. |
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neandrewthal
Joined: May 11, 2007 Posts: 672 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject:
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I just went back and watched the quadatrix videos again(now that I understand it) and I see one of these in my future now. I MUST have one, but I still gotta build the MFOS, Klee, RYK 185 and CGS programmer. I'll squeeze it in somewhere I'm extremely impressed at the patterns you can do with just 4 notes. If you wanted to do the same thing on a regular sequencer, it would take 16 steps or more and a lot more fiddling, and even once you've got it down, you wouldn't be able to switch it up so easily. I'm convinced this is the true path to sequencer nirvana _________________ " I went through quite a few trannies til I found one I liked" - Wild Zebra |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:27 am Post subject:
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neandrewthal wrote: | I just went back and watched the quadatrix videos again(now that I understand it) and I see one of these in my future now. I MUST have one, but I still gotta build the MFOS, Klee, RYK 185 and CGS programmer. I'll squeeze it in somewhere I'm extremely impressed at the patterns you can do with just 4 notes. If you wanted to do the same thing on a regular sequencer, it would take 16 steps or more and a lot more fiddling, and even once you've got it down, you wouldn't be able to switch it up so easily. I'm convinced this is the true path to sequencer nirvana |
Hahaha. It is SO cool to see your enthusiam!!
Now try to imagine my side of desire, for, this type of sequencer - since 1982 (almost continuous) when I first heard Tangerine Dream! If I am not mistaken - I finally HAVE the beginnings of a sequencer, that work in many of the ways that TD used their sequencers. Except - my design is 1V/octave.
I have been so busy with building since the middle of June, I've had barely any time to actually play with my sequencers. The power of the Quadatrix though, allows you to play any step, whenever you want, triggering it as many times as you want. It's all due to the the Bit input values. Forward, backward, diagonally, changing octaves - and THEN you can easily change the actual note on each step by just turning the rotary switch to select 1 of the 12 notes in the octave, or change the octave of a step's note by switching the related octave rotary switch.
One thing that they ARE missing though is PORTAMENTO! I never even thought of it when I was designing the sequencer and building them. The next versions will be including at least 1 linear portamento, for sure.
Now - WHAT is a RYK 185?? ?? |
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neandrewthal
Joined: May 11, 2007 Posts: 672 Location: Canada
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject:
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neandrewthal wrote: | http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-27157.html
I'm excited about this one too |
Aye! THAT is one of the coolest new sequencers that I've seen in a LONG time. Most impressive (to me) since I saw the MIDIbox SEQ sequencers a couple of years ago. (Though, that end were originally leaning more towards MIDI. I still haven't completed my V2.00 unit and wont be, sadly. I'm FAR more modular than MIDI based, in my desires.) |
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Pehr
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 1307 Location: Björkvik, Sweden
Audio files: 2
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:51 am Post subject:
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Rykhaard wrote: | Pehr wrote: | Or is it even more simple?
How about a 8-step 4013-shift register where the skip switch just shorts the active step to the next?
EDIT: Like the MFOS 8 Channel Expandable Analog Sequencer, where the Q output of one step either goes to the next stage or the next after that. I think I'll go for that sollution, thanks everybody! |
Hey Pehr. Did you work out the solution to the Skip function with Ray's CD4013 setup? I think I might have worked out the logic of the Skip using the FF's tonight at work. I then though remembered that the Moog Q960 used FF's for each step and had the Skip; Rest; Play (or something) switch steps. I'll have to find my Moog modular blueprints and see if there was a 960 in my former bud's machine.
I don't NEED the Skip function in my sequencers now as the function can be taken care of, but - I'd like to have it as WELL. Wondering if you've worked out the solution and if so - what it be. |
I haven't built it yet, but I think it is possible with some PCB trace cutting and on-off-on switches.
off for stop (since the chain is broken), up and down for next step and skip step.
However, it would be nice with gateable skip/stop/next _________________ YouTube channel
flickr photostream
http://loxodrom.blogspot.com
http://www.garageband.com/artist/loxodrom
http://soundcloud.com/loxodrom |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:12 am Post subject:
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Pehr wrote: |
I haven't built it yet, but I think it is possible with some PCB trace cutting and on-off-on switches.
off for stop (since the chain is broken), up and down for next step and skip step.
However, it would be nice with gateable skip/stop/next |
Mmmm. My not yet brain just thought of:
Q to Window Comparator; High = next step; between = stop; Low = step after next step. Manual switch for the same. ?? (If that function would work. Would have to be tested manually, first.) |
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