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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » The layout factory
The Triple Drum Trigger schematic and PCB ......
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject:  The Triple Drum Trigger schematic and PCB ......
Subject description: layout have just been posted
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What a way to start the New Year!! A new module idea from me that I've not seen anywhere else in the analog synths world, is up and running!! cheers

Now - if ANYone has ever heard of a module like this being done by any synth company or DIY person, could you please let me know? I don't know of every module ever done before, but I truly believe this one to be the first! Very Happy If it HAS been done by someone before, I'll remove my 'invention' claim. Wink

I've just come up out of the shop / studio to calm down in my excitement. I'll be heading back down to the shop in a few minutes to hook up the Liquid HiHat again, to make a demonstration of both units together, with my first electronic drum pad. The video will be posted later this evening. Smile

Here's it's video! Smile



The full description is here:

------
(Brief outline)

Recently, I built one of Ray Wilson's Drum Trigger circuits from the schematic that I found on his web page, in the Sound Lab section: http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/OLD_SOUNDLABMINISYNTH/drum_trigger.html

I've a video up on my youtube.com site where I'm demonstrating it, banging away on a Dollar Store alarm clock (which has a piezo transducer in it).

2 of the Christmas presents that I happily received, were practice drum pads and drum sticks. I had previously found a site for converting a Remo Practice Pad, to an electronic drum pad: http://www.electronicdrums.com/pads/pads2.htm

Just before I completed conversion of my Remo Practice pad, I remembered an idea that I had a few years ago, for a drum controller: setting it up, so that you could trigger different sounds from hitting your drum, depending on how hard you hit it.

I.E.: Let's say that I would like to have a Snare drum that sounds different depending on how hard I hit the drum pad ( or, depending the on the voltage value that is input to the Trigger input).

If I were to hit the drum pad very lightly, I may only hear the sound of the snare drum's shell resonating.

Then, if I were to hit the drum pad a little harder, I would start to hear the springs at the bottom of the snare drum, providing a little bit of buzz.

And finally, if I really start whacking on the drum pad, I'd also hear the impact of the drum stick on the snare's drum head.

Or, how about a bass drum??

If I were to hit the drum pad very lightly, I may only hear the sound of the bass drum's shell resonating.

If I were to hit the drum pad a little harder, I'd then hear the impact thud of the drum pedal, smacking the skin.

Finally, if I were to hit the drum pad as hard as I could, such as stomping on the drum pedal with all of your leg's might - I may start hearing some distortion as well, as I'm over driving the membrane of the microphone that's micing the bass drum. Laughing

These 2 examples give something of an idea as what could be done, with a drum trigger interface that allows you to activate different sounds.

And here's 1 final example that I had though of as well:

Hitting the drum pad somewhat softly I would hear the short ring of a bell type sound. (Think of a ride cymbal, being hit directly in it's center where the 'bell' is.)

Hitting the drum pad a fair bit harder, rings the bell much louder and longer as well as the shimmering effect of the ride cymbal being hit fairly hard.

Finally - hitting the drum pad very hard, hearing a minorly briefly dissonant bell, as well as the soft smash of the ride cymbal, AS WELL as a single cycle of all of the notes in a 16 note sequence!

Wink

And so it began .......

Being in the world of building a modular synth again, I finally decided to come up with a circuit FOR doing that. And Ray's Drum Trigger, became my victim. Wink

Yesterday, I did a minor bread board test for an interface that would allow a 2nd drum voice to be triggered, depending on the velocity setting of it's controls.
In other words - I built the input portion of Ray's Drum Trigger and I added 2 x Comparators to it, each with their own trigger level pots.

And the test worked. I set comparator #1's trigger level to just over 0 volts, so that it's Decay section would output a Decay envelope when my drum pad was hit, for just about any velocity level.
I set comparator #2's trigger level to somewhere roughly between +5 and +7 volts, so that I would have to hit the drum pad a bit harder before comparator #2's Decay envelope output any voltage at all.

Success! (I used an LED for each of the lines to show whether their Decay outputs were active or not.)

I then proceeded to trying different trigger levels for each of the comparators on the bread boarded test unit and it worked for every level for both of them! Last night then I completed the schematic's modification and started laying out the PCB, which I completed today, successfully cooking both boards.

My pair of Triple Drum Trigger modules will each consist of the following controls, LEDs and jacks:

- Trigger In jack
- Decay #1 Out jack
- Decay #2 Out jack
- Decay #3 Out jack
- Decay #1 amount LED
- Decay #2 amount LED
- Decay #3 amount LED
- Trig Level #1 control
- Trig Level #2 control
- Trig Level #3 control
- Decay #1 length control
- Decay #2 length control
- Decay #3 length control
- Decay #1 output amount control
- Decay #2 output amount control
- Decay #3 output amount control

I took photos earlier of both of the PCBs. 1 with the laser printer gook still on it and the other one with it all buffed off. But - can I find the interface cable to plug my camera into the PC? NoOOoooOooOooOoo. (sigh) Soon. Wink

I'll start on the panel design tonight for all of the controls / etc. as well as some sort of pic to have on the panel. If all goes well, I'll have the entire thing finished within a few days, as well as the 2 extra Remo Practice Pads that I bought yesterday, converted to electronic drum pads. (I picked up 5 more Dollar Store alarm clocks for $1 each, earlier today. Wink MANY drums, are to come! Very Happy )

I know this has been one HELL of a long message, but I were hoping to get the idea of this module across as clearly as possible, in case anyone may be interested.
One thing that I forgot to mention: being able to change the length of Decay as well as the AMOUNT of the Decay envelope, provides a HUGE range of sound possilibities. Smile

I'll have the schematic posted within this message later as well. (I received permission from Ray, in email.) I just have to make some part #'s individual rather than duplicates.

Last edited by Rykhaard on Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:15 am; edited 4 times in total
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Dragon's Lair



Joined: Dec 29, 2006
Posts: 203
Location: Hope BC, Canada
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Caution ... mad scientist at work ... I can just picture the Jacobs Ladders and Tesla coils arcing and crackling in the background...

Nice one Ryk, I'm working on something similar, a gate/trigger module using charge capacitance touch controllers.
I see you joined up over at Muff's site, should be interesting.
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dragon's Lair wrote:
Caution ... mad scientist at work ... I can just picture the Jacobs Ladders and Tesla coils arcing and crackling in the background...


Haha! If only I COULD be that good! Laughing

Quote:

Nice one Ryk, I'm working on something similar, a gate/trigger module using charge capacitance touch controllers.


What???? Shocked Any more info on this? I've been curious as to such controllers since the early days of PAiA and then Serge. Clue me in! Smile Smile

Speaking of Gate / Trigger, that reminds me - I have a combo Gate Delay / Burst Generator roughly planned. 2 new drum designs (only the above one 'public' so far) and a complete rebuild of both my 19" racks though have taken over all brain time for the moment. Wink

Quote:

I see you joined up over at Muff's site, should be interesting.


Aye! Can't remember where I even found out of, but it has a nice crowd and a nice different angle of things. Tis a pleasure to be a member now both here and there. Smile
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bounce

Whilst I remember - I still have to finalize the schematic for posting it up here. Shall get that done within the next couple of days.
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The 1st video of the Triple Drum Trigger is live! Smile

There's 1 error in it though. Sad During the shoot, after I've shown the first output trigger (which is audible), I start hitting the drum pad a little harder so that you can hear what the 2nd trigger is setup to do. Problem there: the camera didn't pickup the Frequency Cutoff of the SSM2044 filter, opening up further. Sad
You CAN hear the 'open hihat' and 'pitch change' effect of the 3rd trigger (at the same time as the 1st trigger, being a 'closed hihat', but not the 2nd.

In future videos, I'll set up the 3 outputs to control different things that are more obvious to the ear.
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ericcoleridge



Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 889
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dragon's Lair wrote:

Nice one Ryk, I'm working on something similar, a gate/trigger module using charge capacitance touch controllers.


Yesssss! I'm very interested in your Capacitance touch controller as well! Would love to hear more about it? Do you make PCB layouts for yor circuits by any chance?.

I really want to make a Capacitance Touch Controller Keyboard this year, and would love to find a PCB layout for doing so. I know there will be a ton a repetition on such a project, so I'd really like a layout that I could just copy and paste for each key.
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yusynth



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 1314
Location: France

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi

I don't know about the originality of this concept and I am sure it is cool but dot you think this thread has something to do with the sub-forum topic "Layout factory"? It should find itself a better place in the Developer Corner sub-forum or Musical interface sub-forum

_________________
Yves
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yusson wrote:
Hi

but dot you think this thread has something to do with the sub-forum topic "Layout factory"? It should find itself a better place in the Developer Corner sub-forum or Musical interface sub-forum


The intent of posting the message within this thread is due to the schematic for it / being posted in here as well - thereby related to this thread.
Posting each in different sections may only cause confusion / loss of relation.

The schematic hasn't been edited yet to rid it of duplication in part values / part #'s as that could also cause confusion. Once editing is complete, the schematic and PCB layout shall be posted here, for all.
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here are the schematic, PCB layout and parts listing for the Triple Drum Trigger

(Edit) Please note - there's 1 difference of part values on the PCB that I forgot to correct.
In the 1st version of the Triple Drum Trigger, I had used 10k resistors for the Decay control's smallest resistance. I'd forgotten that I'd found a value of at least 300k to be best for the shortest possible Decay length for the Decay EG. (In my experiments with my first build of Ray Wilson's Drum Trigger circuit.)
In that circuit I had found useful minimum resistor values for the shortest Decay to be between 300 and 510k.

The video that I've linked to at the beginning of this thread, demonstrates the Triple Drum Trigger, using the 10k resistors. This small value decreases the maximum Decay length obtainable with a larger resistor as you can hear, in the other video that I have posted at my youtube.com site ( dolphinicus ) with the original Drum Trigger. There, the maximum Decay times are approximately 3 seconds in length.

If you decide to use this PCB layout, just ignore the 10k specification and place a resistor between 300k and 510k in their places. Smile

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

The Triple Drum Trigger parts list.

Resistors: (all resistors are 5% 1/4 watt)
R1, R2, R4, R12 = 10 meg
R14, R16, R18 = 300k to 510k (determines minimum length of Decay)
R7, R8 = 1 meg
R9, R19, R20, R21 = 1k
R10 = 47k
R11 = 100k

Potentiometers: (all potentiometers are Linear)
R3, R5, R6 = 100k
R13, R15, R17 = 500k to 2 meg (determines the length of Decay)

Capacitors: (all capacitors are ceramic non-polarized)
C1, C5, C6 = 0.01uF / 10nF
C2, C3, C4 and each chip’s power buffers = 0.1uF

ICs:
U1 = LF351, TL081, TL071
U2, U3 = LF347, LF444, TL084

Miscellaneous:

Piezo transducer (these are non-polarized). I’ve recently found these to be very easy as well as cheap, to find. Head to your nearest Dollar store (cheap stuff joint) and pick up a digital alarm clock that has a buzzer.

Inside you’ll fine a piezo transducer. Very carefully remove it from the housing; solder 24 guage wires to each of the wires coming from it and each of the other wire’s ends to the circuit itself or to a connector which will connect to it’s mate at the circuit board.

------

This is all of the information that's now been posted in the Designs / Layouts section of my new Blog:

http://deathlehem.com/designs-layouts/

Enjoy. Any questions about this module, just fire them off to me. Smile I already have an update for it, that will provide a variable length GATE ON type of EG as well. This function would be VERY useful for the Liquid HiHat in providing a truer Open Hihat sound. All from a single module pair. Wink
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For anyone that may be following this thread, that may have noticed the error in the above schematic (causing only very long Decay times) - I've worked out it's error, correcting it.

The Decay time is now controllable with the 1 meg Decay control from roughly 0.1 to over 10 seconds in Decay length.

The 3 x Output Amount controls, will also determine how much of the Decay envelope is output, for each of the 3 x Decay Amount controls.

Once I get the other 3 Triple Voice Drum Triggers completed on the quad PCB and it mounted to it's currently drilled (but no picture done yet) panel, I'll shoot a video demonstrating it's use.

Here's the latest schematic of it, from my Blog:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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