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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Ken Stone designs - CGS
What CGS filter to choose?
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zthee



Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 414
Location: Stockholm

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:51 pm    Post subject: What CGS filter to choose?
Subject description: Band-pass or Bi-N-Tic?
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Hey!

I'm designing a four panel system with mainly CGS modules (I'd like to keep it all CGS, but can't since it lacks an envelope and a few filter moduels...). But anyway.

I've come up to the point where I'm about to choose between 4 band-pass filter modules or one bi-n-tic filter. I've built them both. So it's just a matter deciding which one it will be.

(Now you'll think; he's got 4 panels! Why can't he do both.. Sorry! it's either the one or the other... since mainly all the other panels are full with lots and lots of other stuff! Just to say that panel no. 2 holds first 4 x topps buchla 281 and then the CGS modules - digital noise, saw pitch shifter, VCA, pulse divider + xor, VC divider and then a 4 step programmer sequencer... And that panel is just 4U x 17" so it's 16 columns with 8 rows..)

Anyway.

Pros and cons!

Bi-N-Tic: Nearly all the demos I've hear on the net doesn't make me want one. It just doesn't sound so cool! The thing that gets me going is that metalic ringing that it has? I really like that part. The second reason why I want one is that I think I can do some really unusual sounds with it, both metalic and more "droney" sound.. There was one demo on youtube that was OK.. But it's always hard to tell, since most of the videos is just a mischmasch of alot of things going in and out of the module.. And it's hard to tell what kind of sound it actually makes.

Band-pass: It's not CV controlled, so it doesn't benefit from being close to a VCF altough it's not. I like the idea of being able to set it up as a 4 output into 4 different VCAs and then use some kind of quadrature modulations to get it to sweep between the filter points... That would be a sound I'ld like! A small bit electric drone, but yet acustic.. But I'm not sure it would be usefull in "real" music. But I like the idea!

I know it's hard to choose between apple or pears. And I really wanna be conviced that the Bi-N-Tic is something worth having... But so far I'm not sure. And I just made a sketch of the band-pass filter on panel no. 1 (which is where either one will go) and it looks damn nice!

I'd really like your honest oppinion!

Maybe I should make a pol?

Confused
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andrewF



Joined: Dec 29, 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: australia
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds like its going to be an excellent modular
Which CGS filter?? - Steiner!!!!!! Very Happy
It still rates as my favorite filter, especially when the CV source is a super psycho LFO.

I like the BiNTics and use them a lot (have 3), but tend to use them as unusual VCOs and I tap the extra outputs of the 4024s for the divided frequencies. A great module but not really a 'normal' filter.

A BP filter bank is on my to-do list, the one on Ken's page looks so good. If you had one of these and wave-shapers/multipliers/manglers, you probably wouldn't need a VCF.
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fluxmonkey



Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 707
Location: cleve

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ditto what andrew said. the steiner is just a great filter, very distinctive voice but does all those filterey things straight up. you can do a very compact build, as well: my standard has one input jack and 3 toggles to enable LP BP HP or any combo, haven't really missed having separate pots for each.

the bi-n-tic is more exotic, i also use it more as a source than a filter, and as far as i can tell it cant be "tamed" very much. cool stuff, but you pretty much have to want that sound, that's what it does. for timbre-shaping, i'd go with the wave-folder ahead of the bi-n-tic: very very versatile module... it would be a toss up, for me, choosing between the steiner/wavefolder.

i also have a 5-up bandpass, but the lack of VC really is limiting. unless you already have some good LPFs on one of the other panels, and really need some subtler formant kind of voicing.

4u, 19" panels... sounds sort of sergish? would love to see what yr planning... good luck!

bbob

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Tasmanian Alkaloid



Joined: Jun 29, 2008
Posts: 116
Location: Isle De Mort

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just built the Synthacon, and having separate inputs for HP, BP & LP is really worthwhile, because it gives you the interpolating scanner effect, which sounds incredible. Having a different source in each input makes very strange sounds, amost like sequencing through each input, with the filter changing subtly or a lot, depending on the setting of each pass.
I also have a CGS band-pass, although the resonance isn't working properly. It can sound similar to the BP on the Synthacon at it's most tame. I really like the bandpass...I think it comes down to what types of sounds you want to make. Multiple bandpasses would make for nice string sounds, plus you should be able to put a DC mixer linking them without too much more space. Despite mine not working properly, it also makes a nice treble-like eQ. Having four, and panning them, should allow you to extract & layer four different frequencies from one sound.
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zthee



Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 414
Location: Stockholm

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the quick replies! Very Happy

First - my thoughts on the Synthacon!

I've got a Synthacon in the modular I built last year. And I quite enjoy it. But for these new panels I've choosen a MOTM 490 as VCF instead. Why? Mainly because I'd like a more classic VCF sound for the only "normal" VCF I'm gonna build.. On my current Synthacon I guess I've done something wrong, since I can never get that interpolating thing going. And it won't oscillate (Now I'm not sure it should do it either?? But it says it should on the CGS page?).. http://zthee.vantage.ch/synthacon.mp3 That's the way mine sounds. First it's lowpass, then bandpass and then highpass. Can't remeber resonance settings though Smile

But more I play with my current modular I realise that I'm much more of a waveshaper person then a one who wants to filter everything out.

I think that my first thought was to have the Bi-N-Tic mainly as an oscillator. But with the filter posibilites as a nice feature. I really like the "bubbling / squelchy" sound it makes in this video (starts at 02.44) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCwWxcbDZ0A - and I hope that's the sound of the Bi-N-Tic and not from some strange modulation source.. And if that's the way the Bi-N-Tic is gonna sound then I'm all in!

Imagine that with a bit of frequency shifting! Drool....

Bbob, It's not sergish... It's a complete serge rip-off! Embarassed

And shouldn't I call this thread "which CGS filter to choose" instead of "what.."? Smile


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andrewF



Joined: Dec 29, 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: australia
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ooh
nice panel Exclamation
would love to see more
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