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funkyfarm
Joined: Jan 21, 2007 Posts: 583 Location: France
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject:
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fonik wrote: | i implemented the d-flipflop today, as once mentioned to me by harry bissell:
the comparators output is fed into the d-flipflop. the flipflop is clocked by the origin clock.
it improved the performance a lot. |
Amazing !!
Far beyond my skills
But something hurt my ears within the first sample.
sequencer as source, MFOS 12db filter comes in later:
http://www.modular.fonik.de/sound/quant_01.mp3 |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:08 am Post subject:
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funkyfarm wrote: | But something hurt my ears within the first sample.
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i think i know what you mean. i think you can hear it at the start of the other samples, too. i don't know what it is, however it is not the quantizer. i even didn't recognize it when recording the samples. strange kind of artefact!? _________________
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source |
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xpmtl
Joined: Aug 10, 2007 Posts: 162 Location: Brussels, Belgium
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:00 am Post subject:
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congrats matthias.
one question, is this normal that some notes don't have the same duration as others? It's really obvious in the lfo samples as it sounds like it skips some notes.
if this gets to a pcb sometime i'll take two of these _________________ http://sdiy.xpmtl.net |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:15 am Post subject:
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xpmtl wrote: | one question, is this normal that some notes don't have the same duration as others? It's really obvious in the lfo samples as it sounds like it skips some notes. |
it is not only obvious in the LFO sample, actually it is significant for the LFO sample only. the input CV is continiously changing, not so in the sequencer samples. there are no notes skipped, but the comparison of especially the falling CV input to the staircase seems to cause these artefacts. i will try to increase the clock frequency. hopefully the behaviour will change then...
these days i have aweful lot to do. i still have to work on PS3100 orders and the vocal filter shall be finished before the german modular meeting in may.
however, the quantizer is still on breadboard... _________________
cheers,
matthias
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Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source |
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xpmtl
Joined: Aug 10, 2007 Posts: 162 Location: Brussels, Belgium
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject:
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yep skipped wasn't the right term, shorten is more appropriate.
anyway, take ur time, i got such a backlog in front of me that i can wait _________________ http://sdiy.xpmtl.net |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:16 am Post subject:
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so i did some short and crappy samples of the quantizer.
i quantized a LFO and a S&H using both setups, the 4516s and a 4024 and the latch (D-flipflop). don't care about the metallic sound of the VCO, i did not take care of it when doing the recording using the 4516s back then, so i had to do it with just the same bad sound today using the 4024 to have some comparability.
IMHO the performance of the 4516s is slightly better.
oppinions? comments?
and then: i am used to the doepfer quantizer. a PIC based module providing scales and chords. to be honest, a simple semitone quantizer seems not half that interesting to me. what would you use it for? as supplement for your sequencer?
oppinions? comments?
http://www.modular.fonik.de/sound/4516_lfo.mp3
http://www.modular.fonik.de/sound/4024_lfo.mp3
http://www.modular.fonik.de/sound/4516_sh.mp3
http://www.modular.fonik.de/sound/4024_sh.mp3 _________________
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source |
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funkyfarm
Joined: Jan 21, 2007 Posts: 583 Location: France
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:47 am Post subject:
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A quad version is something awsome, bipolar is a must.
For your klee, M-185, baby sequences. (I guess it is a real good reason)
For transposing some patch (offset into vca...)
For using divider/gate/adsr as transposing signal (via attenuator)
For random and semi-random outputs to 1V/OCT VCO : S&H, 266 SRV, 266 QRV and wogglebug cv and all
For the shitty ASR around here...
and for...huh...who helps me ?
Scott, how did you use your design ?
Scales I have that I prefer is what I call "1-3" (generating only tonic and third over 5 octaves), 1-5, octaves, fifths...I dream about a small module (no pot) with outputs that would generate only thirds, or fifths or octaves from a same signal. |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 6:33 am Post subject:
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did anyone listen to the samples above?
i am still not sure if i want to build me a prototype... by using switches for some of the bits one could achieve 2, 3, 4 or 5 semi steps. this would be no scale of course! scales consist of different steps.
however, the whole thing is still on my breadboard.
opinions about the performance? while typing this i think of trying to clock it faster, maybe this would help too. _________________
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source |
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ach_gott
Joined: Sep 09, 2008 Posts: 79 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 8:27 am Post subject:
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I did listen and I'm finding the idea intriguing, especially with the switches as you mention. |
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zthee
Joined: Feb 20, 2008 Posts: 414 Location: Stockholm
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:30 am Post subject:
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The 4516 definitely sound alot better!
I'm not sure what to expect - but for being a "analog" (i.e. no microcontroller) module I think it sounds good!
Honestly I'd love to see this project go to a PCB stage! _________________ http://www.thehumancomparator.net/ |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:32 am Post subject:
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okay
the questions are:
1) 2x 4516 or 1x 4024?
2) would the quality/performance be sufficient and justifying manufacturing a handful of PCBs? (a single sided layout would be a mess, i believe). _________________
cheers,
matthias
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Big Boss at fonitronik
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zthee
Joined: Feb 20, 2008 Posts: 414 Location: Stockholm
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ach_gott
Joined: Sep 09, 2008 Posts: 79 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 10:38 am Post subject:
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Ditto:
1) 2 x 4516
2) Yes, please. |
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Dego
Joined: Apr 22, 2008 Posts: 139 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:03 am Post subject:
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1) 2 x 4516
2) Yes |
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wetterberg
Joined: Jun 27, 2008 Posts: 48 Location: denmark
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:13 am Post subject:
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I gave it my best listen (eh?) and I too found the 4516 samples to be the most "spot-on". I'd love a couple of pcbs with this on it!
- and yes, add some switches to do whole-tones etc. Love it! |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:13 am Post subject:
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thank you for your kind replies. i would have thought of two channels, one could be used to set the base of the 2nd.
i fear that i will have to buy the standard version of the CAD i use to have enough boards space - then i could do at least some proto PCBs for us four interested people (even a 4-channel version)
the quantizer is still on breadboard. i will redraw the schematic according to our last changes: D-flipflop and 2x4516
does anybody know a single or dual d-flipflop IC and where to source? _________________
cheers,
matthias
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Big Boss at fonitronik
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zthee
Joined: Feb 20, 2008 Posts: 414 Location: Stockholm
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:51 am Post subject:
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Would a 4013 do the trick? http://www.doctronics.co.uk/4013.htm
I'm surprised there is no interest in this project?!
Perhaps you should start a new thread when you get the prototyping running? As people might just miss this since it doesn't say "PCB ON THE WAY! TAKING ORDERS NOW!!" _________________ http://www.thehumancomparator.net/ |
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numbertalk
Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 992 Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:59 am Post subject:
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I could definitely be interested. I have a MFOS quantizer which is why I haven't said anything yet but have been watching the thread.
If a post could be made detailing exactly what features this board will have so I could easily compare it to the MFOS it could help me decide if I'd like a board.
Thanks. |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:08 am Post subject:
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zthee wrote: | Would a 4013 do the trick? |
thank you for the suggestion. however, the 4013 is designed for medium speed (16MHz) and we are looking for high speed (30-60MHz).
the IC would not get smaller anyways. i wished there was a 8pin d-flipflop. _________________
cheers,
matthias
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Big Boss at fonitronik
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:14 am Post subject:
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numbertalk wrote: | I could definitely be interested. I have a MFOS quantizer which is why I haven't said anything yet but have been watching the thread.
If a post could be made detailing exactly what features this board will have so I could easily compare it to the MFOS it could help me decide if I'd like a board.
Thanks. |
i am far from a PCB, but i envision to implement following features (this year at least ):
- 10 octaves
- selectable bi-polar -5V to +5V OR unipolar 0V to 10V
- selectable step width (semi, 2x/3x/4x semi?)
- at least two channels
- one channel could work as a "overall" quantizer to shift the output of the 2nd channel _________________
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:55 am Post subject:
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well i would LOVE to see a theory of operation for this FONIK!! can you write one up or does anyone else know how this works????
i got a bunch of ADC0808's and DAC0808's and would like to try my hand at bread boarding a simple quantizer but have NO IDEA how it works or how to implement it
since yours is all parts i have, i would like to build it and learn from it, but that is going to be hard without an explanation of what each chip is doing and also how scales are created. right now it just looks like a bunch of chips.
i see a divider and a sample and hold but beyond that, i think for many of us, our knowledge of how these things work is sadly lacking
i think the SYNTH DIY community will buy a bunch of your pcbs for this when its done...there is a real need for these and if you start a separate thread, well you will get lots of orders
you know i would love to see more people trying projects like these, including myself. and that is why i bought some ad/da chips. but man, they sure dont seem too simple at first
thanks _________________ -------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
Audio files: 23
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:10 am Post subject:
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hi dan,
i know it is sometimes painful., but you might want to skip thru the previous pages. it is just the ARP style quantizer idea, once picked up by chris list and improved by scott stites (check out chris and scotts docs about how it works).
then we found the AD part used in these circuits to be very expensive and hard to get, so i just utilized a common cheap DAC0800 (that was my contribution).
this is how i would decribe the operation: a clock drives a counter, the counter drives the DAC, the DAC creates a staircase: 128 steps over the range of 10V, trimmed to semitones.
this staircase gets constantly compared to the incoming CV. as soon as the staircase goes higher than the incoming CV signal the comparator goes high and a pulse is derived to trigger the sample and hold. the sample and hold does what? yes, it samples and holds the incoming CV.
that's the basics. _________________
cheers,
matthias
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Big Boss at fonitronik
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007 Posts: 1536 Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:21 am Post subject:
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actually i printed out this whole thread!!
(last night)
thanks a lot for your quick explanation!
so is this how MOST quantizers work? for example the MFOS one doesnt use any DAC chip but it does use counters
i just realized you use a different DAC than me
i wonder if my DAC0808 would work with some mods to the circuit?
thanks as usual
btw...your schematic is viewing and printing very fuzzy...cant zoom in too far _________________ -------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle |
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numbertalk
Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 992 Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:54 am Post subject:
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Thanks for the info Matthias. Sounds interesting. Will definitely follow your progress.
Paul
fonik wrote: | numbertalk wrote: | I could definitely be interested. I have a MFOS quantizer which is why I haven't said anything yet but have been watching the thread.
If a post could be made detailing exactly what features this board will have so I could easily compare it to the MFOS it could help me decide if I'd like a board.
Thanks. |
i am far from a PCB, but i envision to implement following features (this year at least ):
- 10 octaves
- selectable bi-polar -5V to +5V OR unipolar 0V to 10V
- selectable step width (semi, 2x/3x/4x semi?)
- at least two channels
- one channel could work as a "overall" quantizer to shift the output of the 2nd channel |
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