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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Controlling Waldorf XT or Blofeld with a Nord G2
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dasz



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sebber wrote:
Hey Dasz,

this looks so cool. Great to see you going and can't wait to hear more from you.

I was thinking about buying an Evolver myself. What do you mean by "I can get the dirstortion out of my G2"? Are you saying I don't need to spend $400 because you made a patch??


sebber,

You need to add some good 3 band eq module (Eq3band1) before and after the distortion stage. This is where the juice is, from my own experience.

The DP/4 distortion is not too AD (analog distortion), but more DD (digital distortion), but then the other effects make up more than adequately in other areas (no pun intended) Wink

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fac



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dasz,

I see you have an Alesis 3630 compressor. Do you use it on the main bus or only on certain tracks? What's your opinion on it?

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mother misty



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dasz, if you're talking about the distortion of the evolver, are you talking about the digital distortion (called hack) or the analog one (caused by overloading the analog circuit)?

Does the XT has internal (mod)sequencers like the evolver does?

greets,
misty.

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dasz



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mother misty,

I liked both kinds of distortion in the evolver, esp the hacks which are digital (even though their range has too few steps, only 14).

the xt does not have sequencers built in like the evolver, but it has 3 8 stage envelopes (level time, level time ,etc), and a 16 step based arpeggio.

I use external sequencers to control my xt.
/Dasz

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dasz



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The compressor evens out the xt as it is quite a dynamic beast. It is ok, it works. Not a "sweet" compressor, just one that is the way it is, clean. The other instruments are in the G2's so they are compressed too (internally).

Here is a recording of a practise session earlier today which involved 1 G2 keyboard running 2 slots and sequencing a waldorf xt running through an ensoniq dp/4.

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/post-207462.html#207462

Good vibe to all...
/Dasz

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peterkadar



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmm.... don't think that porn post really belongs up here. Unless someone used a G2 to make the soundtrack! Wink
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dasz



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah, I saw it too, Peter.

interesting that thread came alive again. Shocked Shocked Shocked

Because, the funny coincidence is that a post appeared here at around the same time a shiny white Blofeld arrived in my studio. Funny that you and I met in person last week in the spot where this particular Blofeld was on sale.

So I'm giving the Blofeld a chance (I can return it in 30 days).

a. For me, I think the sample option and the size and the immense power (the culmination of many waldorf synths, more oscs, insane filters with more flexibility than the xt's, more poly and more multi-parts, better fx, the fact updates are forthcoming from waldorf) of this synth blows away

b. the aesthetics but the lack of features of my waldorf xt (and the fact the blofeld contains an xt if I want it to), and a plathora of knobs that I do not often use (the # of knobs I do use on the xt are typically no more than 12). and the fact that the xt is not supported.

sure the Blofeld lacks knobs, but I have other controllers including my G2's that more than make up in that department.

---

Here are the findings between the xt and Blofeld:
1. the blofeld has wicked filters, the comb ones, and the ppg are great, but so are the rest of them as each filter can
- overdriven with a dedicated OD stage which has a lot of models which sound great
- be modulated via FM, waveshaped Audio (using the Drive feature),
- it has 2 full featured filters with routing capabilities, whereas the xt had one full and a basic HP/LP in series

2. the basic waveforms are so much nicer and phatter than the xt's, and include PWM. Having 3 osc's means incredible bottom end.

3. I can't wait for the sample option which will allow me to play samples and process mulitple samples through the waldorf's filter stages

4. the blofeld is smoother that the xt on the interpolation front, or as nasty as the xt when I overdrive the filter

--

Soo, the g2's have began controlling a white waldorf Twisted Evil Twisted Evil I'll keep y'all posted.

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Last edited by dasz on Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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dasz



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the last couple of posts were OT (due to that porn post) ...

I was just rereading this thread, so here is the latest. I'm in a new studio (again,m my 4th location is 1.5 years).

I have one Song Nord G2 loaded wth 2 grooves, sequencing itself , a x0xb0x, a waldorf (was xt and now a blofeld). The same G2 is also processing a send return loop from/to the x0xb0x, as well as mixing the x0xb0x's mix output.

The 2 outputs of the Song G2 and the 2 outputs of the blofeld are going into my 2nd Master G2 which mixes it all together and adds drums, as master sequences. This means I am using a Nord for mixing and master effects, which makes things a bit thinner sounding, but I will work on that too.

I am not using my DP/4 anymore due to the cumbersome interface (and I may sell it).

I have posted a demo of this configuration in action here:
http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-32837.html

I'll keep you posted.
/Dasz

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sebber



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool tracks, man. You make me buy the Blofeld. You were raving about your XT and now you say the Blofeld's better. The thing does rock, doesn't it!
Blofeld: Great looks, bad samples. Since the samples can be changed, I'm glad it's not the other way round Very Happy

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grimley



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm seriously tempted by the Blofeld now too even though I just promised myself no more gear acquisition this year!
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sebber



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Shocked You must have bought quite a few things in the last 12 weeks then Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Sebber.

The interesting thing is I bought the xt since I had a MWII 10 years ago, before I got heavily involved with the Nord Modulars. So I bought it since I always wanted an MWII with knobs XT. Having said that, however, since I got it, it did not get the attention it deserved over the last year and a bit as I started to perform live.

In the last 2 months I have been programming it but not getting the umph out of the xt that I expected (I realize that it may be because I am in a different place than 10 years ago), and the size of the unit is an issue (the 5U rack is big if all it produces is one patch).

The Blofeld solves many of these issues quite well (so far). And I am not attached to gear as I once was (except the Nords and the x0xb0x both being the exception).

---

Crickey, Grimley, am I giving you GAS again? Wink I'm glad my patches gave you Nord G2 GAS Smile

Peace.
/Dasz

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grimley



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dasz,
I hadn't really considered the Blofeld until I read this post and checked out a few demos on Youtube etc. I'm really digging the character of this thing but I'm wondering how much overlap there would be with NI Massive? Throwing it in a bag with my laptop sounds tempting though.
By the way, I was (almost) in your neck of the woods today. 12 of us rode up to the border along Hwy 9 and back to Seattle along the water (just got back). We had planned to have lunch in Vancouver (I was going to call when we crossed the border) but decided to head back so we could hit Deception Pass before dark.
-grimley
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dasz



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Grimley,

The Blofeld is surprising me in cool ways. I like it more each day I use it. It goes from nice lush warm and rich to quite raw and nasty. It feels like a breath of fresh air (ok after going through serious update hell on Friday!!!!)

I don't have NI massive, but I have heard the demos a while ago and they were awesome, raw and in your face (the way I like to patch). It has cool things like clocked envelopes, etc ...

I do not use VSTi's due to my physical limitations and stability and integration ... this is why I use hardware gear alone.
/Dasz

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peterkadar



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was checking out the Blofeld keyboard and I quite liked it. But I dont' think I need the large hardware, plus it's $1500. I should have grabbed the Blofeld module when I was in Vancouver, because that was a wicked price. I could find a nice parking spot on my G2x for it Smile
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dasz



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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

a new related topic:
recently I did some filter work in the g2, and I posted the patch, and an mp3 demo of the g2 comparison with a x0xb0x and a blofeld ...

here is the demo, can you spot the g2 or x0x or blofeld?
http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/g2_diy_cg_bandpass_x0xb0x_and_blofeld_303_filters_578.mp3

and the patch of the g2 part alone is here (and is demo friendly):
http://www.electro-music.com/forum/download.php?id=17751

/Dasz

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Oli



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Dasz,

I think you have owned each of:
-MicroWave 1
-MicroWave 2
-MicroWave XT
-Blofeld

I have recently purchased a MicroWave 1 revision A online, and am waiting on delivery. I just wondered what how you would compare the Mk 1 against these other Waldorfs?

I bought the Mk1 because I have been missing analogue filters, and it seemed it seemed just a bit different from my other gear.

I have also always liked the sound of Waldorf's filter models/algorithms, though this is only from hearing samples online. I think I prefer the Q/MicroQ filter models to my Pulse's analogue filter. I find the Pulse a bit too squeally, rather than fat and growly.

Cheers,

Oli

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dasz



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oli,

Yeah, I think the Waldorfs and the Nord Modulars are the only synths I have repeatedly owned ...

note, I haven't had a big variety of synths simulatenously for a long time, rather sticking to a few boxes that I can know well (2 nord g2s, a blofeld, and a x0xb0x), so I tend to buy synths which offer a lot of flexibility vs a specific kind of sound (the x0xb0x just dropped out of the sky, and I am glad I got it) ..

so, here is what I remember about the waldorfs I owned

MW1 - I owned this one a loong tim ago. the filter self resonances really quickly (at over 50% resonance!), and it is a pure silky whistle kind, and I can't think of any other synth with resonance that is this big. the filter frequency spectrum thus gets quite narrow at high resonance, so there is not a lot of bass there (depending on where the cutoff is) the oscs are
quite grungy and steppy (which sounds very cool). I don't remember the envelopes, how snappy they were, etc ... I liked it, but found it a bit limited, with just a LP filter. it has no fx. I had my pc1600 edit it. mind you, I've evolved as a sound designer since I owned this synth.

4pole filter - filter is very simmilar to that of the MW1. Perhaps even closer to the pulse, which I have seen in use

MW2/XT -the filters are digital, but rich, and ballsy. the variaty of filters, incl sin(x)LP, FM, and waveshaping, and the FM capabilities of the synth, made it more flexible thant the MW1. I found I could get close to the whistle of the MW1, but it does can unless you watch some levels. Filter range is better, resonance self-osc begins at (90%). the sound tends to be less grungy than the MW1 (with open filter), but gets really harsh if you program it that way (waveshape osc!). the xt's knobs are great, I but I tended to not use them too often, and it took a lot of space.

Blofeld - very similar to the MW2/XT, but the osc's are smoother, as are the wavetables. the 3rd osc is great. the filters are smoother, tigher and warmer than the xt, and the fx are way better. the OD curves are wonderful, making the sound grungier or slightly tube driven when you want to. fx are nice, but they thin out the synth, so I tend not to over use them (maybe on one part in a multi). and i bought it because of the small footprint, and the fact I can load samples into it (waiting for my sampling expansion).

--


hope this helps.
/Dasz

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Last edited by dasz on Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Oli



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Dasz,

Thanks for the reply.

It seems the Blofeld really is rather versatile.

I think I haven't heard the Blofeld played really warmly, as you say. I've certainly heard it played wildly. I also heard it sound rather 8 bit gamey, which seemed like a bit of fun.

I think the MW1 has very punchy envelopes, from what I have heard.

I'm not a huge fan of filters self resonating too soon, specially if they end up thin and bassless. I do like to be able to overdrive a filter stage. I hope I'll agree with it.

In the least, I think Waldorf gear can provide interesting texture/character. It seems pretty affordable these days, too. My MW1 was $US355.

I am rather attached to my gear. Lots of different gear, I still want to play with, and plenty of exploration left with what I've already been playing for some time.

Cheers,

Oli

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dasz



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

4pole filter - filter is very simmilar to that of the MW1, I recall it was a simmilar design to that in the MW1 filter. Perhaps simmilar to the pulse, which I recall has a different filter sound altogether.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

It has been a looong time since I used either the MW1 or the 4pole, so I am speaking from memory only.
/Dasz

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

I haven't seen the stand alone filter before. It looks just like someone has done a hatchet job on a Pulse.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so I got the Sample option finally working yesterday (due to USB issue on my pc, and using the media player), but today the sample uploader was released.

Quote:
Dear forum,

We just released an application for managing sample content of
Blofeld, all for download on our website here:

http://www.waldorfmusic.de/en/archive?relPath=blofeld/Spectre

Regards,
Stefan Stenzel


So now I am uploading my own samples on top of the factory ones. I will post my findings soon -- to be continued.

In the interim, here is a new recording of my live set with only 1 G2 as main sequencer, a blofeld and x0xb0x and nothing else.

http://soundcloud.com/dasz/somerville-haagen-v2

Enjoy
/Dasz

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's been about 6months since my last update here. I have been integrating the blofeld with an almost purely G2 driven live performance system (see haagenlive blog in my sig).

---

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

So here are some findings, a result of the last 6 months of work.

Blofeld outputs -- going into the G2 or mixer
As mentioned earlier, the Blofeld has a wide dynamic range, especially when it's filters self oscillate. I found feeding it into an analog desk (Mackie) or the G2 inputs sounded similar, so I decided to stick to using my g2 as my main mixer (which also mixes my x0xb0x). The big difference is the fact that the Blofeld can distort more easily going into the G2 and its fx. The blofeld has the same issue going through it's own fx. The fix is to keep the levels low, and compress in the G2 (or in the analog domain). So as a rule of thumb, I turn the Blofeld volume down, and compress right after the inputs.


Adding presence
Internal sounds in the G2 sound sound better then external VA synth sources going through it's inputs. However running analog synths (x0xb0x in my case) into the g2 sounds pretty amazing (it's compressed as well) side by side to the internal g2 sounds or the blofeld. The Blofeld seems to sound darker, less pronounced than the other sources. It lacks the presence of the x0xb0x (which cuts through the mix) at a fundemental level. I am currently experimenting in this area to give the Blofeld more oomph when it's audio goes through the G2 -- more in to come.

having said all that, a quick fix to add more presence is a trick from G2 DSP guru, tim in this post (http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-34508.html) and it balances the Blofeld quite nicely, IMO.


Blofeld samples, filters and the lack of analog input
I must admit, that despite being in the beta version, the sampling option in the blofeld was a major deciding factor in getting the blofeld. the samples once uplodaded to the blofeld (which can take up to 45 minutes due to the midi transfer implementation) sound fantastic! They are bring and rich, and when run through the filters are lush and can dissolve into analog bliss. I have taken a piano sample and turned it into a bassline just using the filters for example. I have a 909 kit in my blofeld meaning I can layer samples with patched models of the drums for a beefier sound. it is nice not to have to lose dedicated inputs on the G2 to perform the same task, since the blofeld uses samples and not inputs.

So the blofeld filters are amazing, but not perfect yet. I am learning new things in this area. The selfoscillation is NOT a pure sine wave and is affected by the dirve curve selected, and I hope this is getting fixed by waldorf, so for now, I don't self-oscillate the filter unless I am prepared for a bit of distortion which is part of my sound anyways. I tested this on headphones connected to the blofeld directly. the blofeld's filters (esp comb , ppg filters) are soo much smoother and warmer than those in the G2.

lack of analog inputs on the blofeld. when I had my xt, I found that driving my samples through the xt's filter was not as impressive as I had hoped for. it sounded nice, but when the xt's filter output went back to the g2 for further processing, some of the magic was gone. the same canot be said when I use my modded x0xb0x which has an osc output and filter input sidechain. When I run the same configuration using the x0xb0x's filter with G2 sources), and the filter returns back into the g2's analog inputs, the sound is smooth and quite fantastic. So I don't miss the inputs on the xt.

Rather, I am lusting after some small desktop analog synths, such as the Doepfer dark Energy, or the new Oberheim SEM. I did experiment with the Dave Smith Evolver's external filter but was not impressed, perhaps since I desire a fat Moog-like filter.

Blofeld and G2 control
Well, this area rocks! I am constantly using my custom sequencer configurations to control the blofeld and other synths, and the results are amazing. I really recommend sequencing with the G2. Especially if you layer sequencers to create complex and evolving. Too bad the G2 lacks a clock envelope so duration of notes can be more easily defined. But the workaround is to set the release on the blofeld to higher values. Unfortunately, the x0xb0x (in midi mode) doesn't have release envelope. So I use a Hold envelope in the G2 to hold my x0xb0x for longer times.

The other area of control is using sequencers or lfo's to control the blofeld. now the blofeld has issues when receiving lots of midi data, so usiing a s/h module before cc send is a good idea. when the blofeld locks up shift+play or turning it off and on solves the problem. hopefully the waldorf guys will address this. The G2 is also a wonderful remote editor for the blofeld. I have used the G2 patch to display the blofeld parameters in the LCD's as well as allowing for one knob to simultaneously control bot h Blofeld filters (see http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?highlight=blofeld+control&t=27442)

In live situations I find having Filter ADSR envelope control, and Amp A and R controls mapped to the G2 panel used together with the blofeld's own interface to be enough for me.

Blofeld Multis
Although the Blofeld is 16part multitimbral (v1.13) it has some bugs in that mode which make multi-mode less than ideal (the panning implementation in the sounds and multi-mode mean it is clunky to assign some parts to one output vs the other for external processing, nor can you upload previously downloaded multi programs.

Luckily, the g2 has cc send and patch send modules and so I work around by panning each blofeld part directly from a g2 fix (it sends the panning of each sounds' filter pan when it is loaded), and patch loading per part controlled by the G2 again. The g2 acts as a great patch selector for the blofeld using a 8-1 switch module which has 8 level modules going to it which then in turn feeds a patch change module. This is a great method for using a knob on the G2 panel (or remote) to select very specific patches in the blofeld -- great in live situations.

System wide integration and workflow
The integration has been part of a larger shift in work-flow for me, which has moved away from running all my sequences live to running fewer sequences and looping them (with my 2880 looper).

The interesting thing is since I got the looper, I have been using the blofeld in single mode, since I can load up a patch using a patch select knob on my g2 (see above). I no longer need a 2nd g2 to drive a show as the looper can capture what I do so I no longer have to keep everything running. it has been a bit of a learning curve to use the looper, but the more I use it, the better and easier it gets.

Change is good (that made me smile given the timing of when I started this thread Wink ). I think the imporant thing that I have learned, is to not be afriad to change the wiring in the studio to try a new approach, outside of one's own comfort zone. it can be well worth it!


Conclusion
Am I happy with the integration of the blofeld and other gear through my G2's? You bet! |Do I wish I had more inputs on the G2? Yup. Do I wish the blofeld had it's bugs fixed? Yup.

Am I happy with my the integration and it's limitation? You bet. At the end of the day, does it make my performance and tweaking kick ass? Most definitely.

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Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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Location: Zürich, Switzerland
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dasz wrote:
Too bad the G2 lacks a clock envelope...

Now it has one. Smile
http://www.electro-music.com/forum/post-282423.html

Edit: Oh, and I forgot an oldie of mine.
http://www.electro-music.com/forum/post-121944.html#121944

cheers Smile
tim

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dasz



Joined: Oct 16, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, it's been a while since my last post ...

Having had a Waldorf Blofeld in the studio for a few years, it is the one piece that does not get used a lot. The blofeld bugs have been mostly repaired in v1.15, but the synth is missing something ....

A while back i introduced another analog synth - the doepfer dark energy, which is now in charge or processing my digital sources (initially the Waldorf blofeld, but then more and more it has been driven by the Nord g2) through it's wonderful analog filter ...

I have found that the Nord can go way beyond in terms of raw power when it comes to oscillators compared to my analogs (dark energy, xoxbox) or digitals (blofeld ).... I think the open ended flexibility of the routing, monitoring, and control of the g2 allows much more creativity than the fixed architecture of many a synth..... IMHO The Nord g2 can blow away analog oscillators any day, in terms of sheer sonic presence/power, if wired properly .....

Ps.: Thanks Tim for the clocked envelope ...

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