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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Wish List
Extend Variation Control
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lordcasio



Joined: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 12
Location: new york city

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:14 pm    Post subject: Extend Variation Control Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So this might be more suited for G2 rack users, but I would LOVE it if I could switch between my preset variations via different (possibly user definable) CCs vs. the one pre-designated CC #70.

I can't think of a MIDI controller that allows you to assign multiple buttons to small increments of one CC. As it stands, I have to use a slider or a volume pedal style control. How are G2 rack users supposed to go from Variation 1 to 4 without scrolling through all the Variations in between?

I use my G2 as an effects processor for my guitar and as a synth for live use and I control it with a MIDI footcontroller and a Korg MicroKontrol. With the dropout between presets when switching via program change, and the lack of availability of dividing up ranges within a CC in most (if not all) MIDI controllers, you can see how useful it would be to have designated (or assignable) CCs per Variation. Tell me what you think.

:::lord
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egw



Joined: Feb 01, 2003
Posts: 1511
Location: Asheville NC
G2 patch files: 8

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You should be able to program a patch that receives different midi CCs and translates them to the desired value for CC70, then sends it to the slot.
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Fozzie



Joined: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 875
Location: Near Wageningen, the Netherlands
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Or use a Behringer FCB1010 that can send any CC with value you like, on 10 footswitches for little money. It can be done, I guess not on a lot of machines. The option described above is more flexible, but requires repatching in big prf's.
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20553
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For more about the Behringer FCB1010 see http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-3840.html

Jan.
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lordcasio



Joined: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 12
Location: new york city

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:19 am    Post subject: more crying about Variation control Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

FOZZIE::::I remember reading the manual for the Behringer, but I don't recall it having that function [sending specific CC values]. I'll have to look into it again, Thanks.

EGW::::I have been contemplating making a dedicated patch for control of all my MIDI utilities. I wasn't sure if I could control the Variation of another Slot due to how seemingly unflexible Variation contol is. Its like everything is a right-click away from being assigned to anything you want EXCEPT Variation. I suppose I really can't complain though. The great thing about these lil' red boxes, is that you can always work around a problem with a little creativity. None the less, I stand behind my "wish". C'mon Clavia...help me out!!!

Do you have any MIDI utility patches you've created EGW? Any pearls of wisdom to bestow?
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egw



Joined: Feb 01, 2003
Posts: 1511
Location: Asheville NC
G2 patch files: 8

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Each of my performances has a midi utility patch in slot 3.
These are pretty simple and not really useful to anyone but me.
The most basic one allows the G2 keyboard to control external devices
(in my case the Emu XL-7). Variations 1-8 send on midi channels 1-8.
So I can quickly switch between 8 different sounds with no gaps.
I also send the mod wheel, pitch stick, and some CCs via the knobs to control e.g. filter, envelope and volume. And arpeggiator on/off (cc80 on the XL-7) and sustain (cc64).
The only danger of using this scheme is that if you switch variations while holding down a key, you will get stuck notes.

On a couple of tunes that I was preparing for Different Skies 2004, I wanted to be able to perform something that previously I had used two keyboards for. Since I was flying out to Arizona, I could only bring the G2 and XL-7, no room for the complete rig. On those tunes I had for example variation 1 playing 3 sounds layered on channels 1-3 and variation 2 playing 3 other sounds on channels 4-6. But I needed to control sustain and volume for all the channels from either variation. It took some trial and error but I was able to get this to work. Such as, since I knew that I was going to play some arps on chans 1-3 in var.1 then switch to var.2, I configured var.2 with the sustain and arps already on for chans 1-3. Lots of stuff like that, including preconfiguring the volumes in each variation to be what I needed when I switched to it. Took some work, but the G2 is very flexible for this sort of thing. And it's especially nice that the LEDs tell you where everything is set, when you start switching around it's easy to lose track of that.
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lordcasio



Joined: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 12
Location: new york city

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:07 pm    Post subject: noLEDs Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EGW:::

I have the G2 Engine, so no helpful LED's. I'm using a MicroKontrol and an old Laptop with my G2. I'm definitely gonna get cracking on my MIDI utility patches and see what i can't come up with. I just paired down my rig recetly to the G2, a mesa triaxis (guitar preAmp) and my Electrix repeater. I would really love to get the all the functions of the Repeater to be controlled by the G2 as triggered by my Program Change pedal. Anyway, maybe I could pick your brain if I screw up? Your set up sounds quite impressive.

:::lord
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lordcasio



Joined: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 12
Location: new york city

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:34 am    Post subject: A decent "work-around" Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So I've been looking for a "work-around" solution for my Variation control via MIDI Program Change problem. I tried building something with my G2's MIDI modules, but theres only a "Program Change Send" module and no recieve module [had intended to translate PC's to CC ranges].
ANYWAY, I found this item:

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodevp.htm

I emailed MIDI Solutions and told them my problem and the guy said he'd even pre-program one for me. It sounds like a nice little box to have especially if you have a G2 Engine. You could concievable recreate all the functions of the keyboard's dedicated knobs and buttons via SYSEX (I think...) for your MIDI controller without having to program each patch to respond to your controller. After the paycheck fairy comes, I'll pick one up and report back...that is if anyone cares.

:::lordcasio
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Looks like a useful device to have around. I'd be interested in what your experience with it turns out to be. If you are using a computer, you can use MIDIOX for a lot of those kinds of things. Seems like the G2 has enough MIDI processing to do what you want though. You have do use a solution that you are comfortable with. Good luck.

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
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egw



Joined: Feb 01, 2003
Posts: 1511
Location: Asheville NC
G2 patch files: 8

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've used the midi solutions router, merger, and thru boxes.
Never had any problems.
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egw



Joined: Feb 01, 2003
Posts: 1511
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It would be cool if the G2 could receive and process program change messages. But I guess it's difficult because normally they would change the patch.
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jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 2486
Location: Denver
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:48 am    Post subject: lordcasio: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not sure how you're going to solve CC messeges with Program Changes. If a patch received a Program Change on it's own channel...the patch would no longer be there! It would have to deal with "other" midi channels.

What "program change" pedal do you have? If it is the Behringer, it definitely has CC messege control, as well as specific CC messege numbers. It also supports CC messege On/Off pressing the same foot pedal.
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lordcasio



Joined: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 12
Location: new york city

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:25 pm    Post subject: PC vs CCs Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I remember checking out the Behringer pedal. I don't think it had all the functions I needed (plus I'm not much of a fan of the design...but thats pretty silly and irrelevant). I've owned lots of different MIDI pedals (Ground Control, Boss FC 200 ect). I am currently using a RFX MIDI Wizard. Its cheap, small, sends up to 8 maps and has 8 CC switch inputs. Its a pain to program though.
ANYWAY, from what I've read the MIDI Solutions device wouldn't pass the program change messages I designated to the ranges of CC#70 (variation control). Alternately, I think I could send PC changes on an unused channel and have the MIDI Solutions Event Processor change the message type and channel.
I have other devices in my set up that would benefit from this as well (Electrix Repeater: selects loops remotely via a range of a CC). I imagine there is a way to do it all inside the G2, but it would tie up a slot...so it makes sense for my set up....assuming it all works as described.

ps::my set up is for performing/guitar and keys: Mesa Triaxis, G2 Engine, Electrix Repeater, Korg MicroKontrol, RFX MIDI Wizard, some pedals and an old crappy laptop to run the G2 editor.
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jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
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Location: Denver
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm guessing you don't bring the laptop/MicroKontrol with you onstage (or when you play live?)

If you do, and the Laptop is in your MIDI loop, you can use something like MIDIOX to do the translations very easily. It is freely available at:

http://www.midiox.com/
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lordcasio



Joined: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 12
Location: new york city

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:28 am    Post subject: staged Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar:::
well...this whole set up (sans the Repeater) is somewhat new to me, so I haven't played out live with it yet...but that is the idea. And I probably would take the laptop (and definitely the MicroKontrol), but I have no MIDI interface for it, nor would I get one. A friend gave me the thing and its not really up to par for the editor. I will check out that program though, for my other computer. Thanks for the tip.


:::lord
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Rob



Joined: Mar 29, 2004
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Location: The Hague/Netherlands/EC
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There are three different midicontgrollers to my disposal, Peavey PC1600x, Roland MCR-8 and Behringer BCF-2000. All three have a lot of pushbuttons and all three allow these to be programmed in a way that I have eight different pushbuttons to select the eight variations. Thought only the BCF2000 gives visual feedback by leds in the pushbuttons.

The BCF2000 is incredible value for the money to control Engines. I even managed to use highres NRPNs from the faders in patches, great for tuning oscs and filters.

The accompanied patch uses CC#20 to CC#27 in MIDI channel 1 to change variations in slotA. Just copy the modules into the FX area and it works (at least over here).


CtrlToVarChanges.pch2
 Description:
This patch example uses midi CC#20 to 27 in channel 1 to select variations in SlotA. The value of the CC# doesn't matter, just send any value with the CC# and it works. Copy into the FX area of any patch in SlotA. Set another slot in the CrtlSend modules

Download
 Filename:  CtrlToVarChanges.pch2
 Filesize:  1.45 KB
 Downloaded:  802 Time(s)

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