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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Solina or Onmi ensemble board?
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If I'd make a string chorus PCB, what kind of multi-BBD circuit would you prefer?
Solina style (also: Crumar Performer, Böhm Phasing Rotor, and others)
62%
 62%  [ 28 ]
ARP Omni style
13%
 13%  [ 6 ]
Elka Synthex 4 BBD circuit
11%
 11%  [ 5 ]
other (please name in thread)
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
I would want neither - it's old fashioned and overused, and if I need it, there are digital FX boxes
6%
 6%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 45

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numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 980
Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi JH,

I just finished my Triple Chorus and it sounds great. I had a few questions, though.

First, I really can't perceive any differences when I turn either of the speed trimmers. However, when I observe their respective outputs of U6 I do see the DC jumping speed up and slow down. Should the changes to these trimmers be really noticeable in the sound?

Also, I can definitely hear the changes that turning the shape pot makes, but I wanted to be able to see the actual modulation waveform, but don't seem to be able to find it. Where would I point my scope if I wanted to be able to see the modulation waveform and how it changes exactly with this pot? I tried observing at pin 2 of one of the CD4011Bs and the waveshape at this spot in the circuit (which here looked like a warped pulse/square wave) didn't change shape at all when turning the waveform pot - it just made the waveshape there either move back and forth, as though it were being modulated, or then with the pot turned to the opposite extreme the waveform did not move/did not seem to be modulated.

Finally, is it normal that turning the shape pot doesn't effect the sound when listening to any of the individual BBD line outs (out 1, out 2 or out 3) by itself?

Thanks!
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

numbertalk wrote:
Hi JH,

I just finished my Triple Chorus and it sounds great. I had a few questions, though.

First, I really can't perceive any differences when I turn either of the speed trimmers. However, when I observe their respective outputs of U6 I do see the DC jumping speed up and slow down. Should the changes to these trimmers be really noticeable in the sound?

Also, I can definitely hear the changes that turning the shape pot makes, but I wanted to be able to see the actual modulation waveform, but don't seem to be able to find it. Where would I point my scope if I wanted to be able to see the modulation waveform and how it changes exactly with this pot? I tried observing at pin 2 of one of the CD4011Bs and the waveshape at this spot in the circuit (which here looked like a warped pulse/square wave) didn't change shape at all when turning the waveform pot - it just made the waveshape there either move back and forth, as though it were being modulated, or then with the pot turned to the opposite extreme the waveform did not move/did not seem to be modulated.

Finally, is it normal that turning the shape pot doesn't effect the sound when listening to any of the individual BBD line outs (out 1, out 2 or out 3) by itself?

Thanks!


(1) The influence of the speed trimmers is quite subtle.
Just keep them in mid position, if you don't have another preference.

(2) At "Mod1", "Mod2" and "Mod3" in http://www.jhaible.de/triple_chorus/jh_triple_chorus_sch_page2.pdf

(3) The sound of the individual BBD outputs is so crude compared to the mixed solina sound, that you won't notice subtle differences as much as in the mix. (But for the mix, the shape trimmer setting makes a difference for sure!)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 980
Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for confirming it sounds as though all is well with my triple chorus!
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JoeMorris



Joined: Apr 26, 2009
Posts: 160
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ive got a question that will betray my extreme beginner status - I fancy putting in a power led into my solina, where's a good spot on the circuit to drop it in?
Many thanks...
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
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Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

After the voltage regulator. Add a series resistor to the LED, and make sure the anode is at GND. (supply voltage is -15V !)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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JoeMorris



Joined: Apr 26, 2009
Posts: 160
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cheers jurgen
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lexvortex



Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi JH,

I just about finished stuffing my triple chorus PCB and noticed that my 47u capacitors are rated for only 10V is this OK?

Thanks,
Dave
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

lexvortex wrote:
Hi JH,

I just about finished stuffing my triple chorus PCB and noticed that my 47u capacitors are rated for only 10V is this OK?

Thanks,
Dave


No !

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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lexvortex



Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JH wrote:
No !

JH.


Thank! I went out and 25V ones instead Smile
Dave
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lexvortex



Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi JH,

I've finished the Triple Chorus and I have a problem, out 2 doesn't work well. I can hear it faintly if I turn the volume up loud and it is being modulated but the volume is just very low compared to the others. Ive checked all the components associated with that output and they all correct and match up to the other outputs. I did do something kinda boneheaded, I plugged the output directly from a VCO into output 2 accidentally (I had just woke up and was groggy but wanted to play) I don't know if output two was working before that or not, as I had just finished it late last night and didn't have time to test it all. Could that have broken something? I also went over all suspicious solder joints too... any help would be appreciated.

Edit: I've swapped 4011 and TDA chips but it makes no difference.

Thanks,
Dave
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

lexvortex wrote:
Hi JH,

I've finished the Triple Chorus and I have a problem, out 2 doesn't work well. I can hear it faintly if I turn the volume up loud and it is being modulated but the volume is just very low compared to the others. Ive checked all the components associated with that output and they all correct and match up to the other outputs. I did do something kinda boneheaded, I plugged the output directly from a VCO into output 2 accidentally (I had just woke up and was groggy but wanted to play) I don't know if output two was working before that or not, as I had just finished it late last night and didn't have time to test it all. Could that have broken something? I also went over all suspicious solder joints too... any help would be appreciated.

Edit: I've swapped 4011 and TDA chips but it makes no difference.

Thanks,
Dave


It's unlikely that you damaged anything with that VCO. Unless it did work, before - in that case it's likely!

Try soldering a 10pF cap in parallel to C110 temporarily (just for ruling out that clock problem someone desribed before).

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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lexvortex



Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi JH,

THANKS!! That worked perfectly Very Happy Very Happy . I put a 22p cap across pin1 and 14 on the HEF4011.

Thanks again,
Dave
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Spratty



Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Posts: 43
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Recently got back to trying to finish this project off (finished some others recently). I have been running off 16vac....I can't seem to get a stable reference voltage and the readings I'm getting seem to be super low, I'm thinking either my LM337T is broken or I've put something in the wrong way. All caps look good though, no burning or anything.

I'm a bit green on some of this stuff...I build pedals sometimes...no AC...as I'm running on AC wallwart/power pack, where should I be trying to take my ground reference from? (just to double check here...)

Can someone advise the correct orientaition of the LM337T? I noticed in Etaoin's pic his 337T looks like it's the opposite to mine... Should the 337T jacket lip be closer to the power supply cap (470uf) or further away, towards the tantalum?

I would certainly appreciate some advice Smile I'm hoping I haven't stuffed anything...

Spratty Wink
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Stavros



Joined: Oct 30, 2007
Posts: 27
Location: Athens-Greece

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

LM337 front should face the 470 Cap. Please see also picture in http://www.jhaible.de/triple_chorus/triple_chorus.html

I am afraid I can not help with the other question.

regards

Stavros
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.jhaible.de/triple_chorus/jh_triple_chorus_overlay.pdf

shows the orientation of the voltage regulator.
(It's also printed directly on the PCB.)

Metal side faces 10R resistor.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Spratty



Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Posts: 43
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Righteo.

Thank you Stavros and JH Smile

I think I had a busted 337T. Not sure how Confused . They all live in the one non static bag. I checked the fuse tonight and it was blown too. I don't know what events caused what. I didn't do anything special other than plug this up.

I replaced the 337T and the fuse. And I'm testing the opamps and I'm seeing ~-15v on pin 4's! I used an audio ground in the end - I wasn't sure where else I should be able to guarentee things should have been 0v. I don't think I have a short, as it seems ok, even after 10mins. So hopefully, when I have all the other wires together I should be able to hear some chorusing and I wont post here about other problems Smile

One very happy, but somewhat puzzled...

Spratty Wink
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Voltages look promising now.

GND - yes, I, too, use GND pins of the audio connectors for the probe GND connection. I should add more GND test points on my PCBs in the future!

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Spratty



Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Posts: 43
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just a thought JH:

On one pcb I have for something else, the chap who put it together had a hole called "TP-" and another "TP+" (bipolar supply). The holes were just the right size for my multimeter probes. I found I could just pop one probe in the hole, find a ground and it was super simple to check the power supply without risking touching anything else and there was no need to turn anything upside down. Unbelievably simple idea if you have a little space to punch the hole.

Spratty Wink
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Spratty wrote:
Just a thought JH:

On one pcb I have for something else, the chap who put it together had a hole called "TP-" and another "TP+" (bipolar supply). The holes were just the right size for my multimeter probes. I found I could just pop one probe in the hole, find a ground and it was super simple to check the power supply without risking touching anything else and there was no need to turn anything upside down. Unbelievably simple idea if you have a little space to punch the hole.

Spratty Wink


Right - but it takes valuable board space. Smile Smile

I normally just take the small scope probe and touch the IC pins directly ...

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Spratty



Joined: Oct 08, 2007
Posts: 43
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

...success I believe!

Tripped some of the mode pins, bypassed the eq.. and instant triple chorus wonderfulness on the output pins! Smile Smile Smile Smile Nice and smooth sound...yay!!!

Spratty Wink
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eframp



Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 25
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JH -

I'm now having trouble with my Triple Chorus. The weird part is, when I first assembled it some months ago, it was working perfectly...

When I first assembled it, I just jumpered the Mode header since I didn't have a proper switch. I went in today to mount said switch now that I've got one, and the trouble began.

Delay lines 2 and 3 are happily chorusing, but I'm only getting a periodic glitch out of the first line. I've tried individually swapping 1022's and 4011's, but the problem stays with the line, not the chips.

The glitch can be made to come and go depending on the setting of the Waveform trim. All the way CCW and the glitch goes away completely; at the other end it's pretty loud.

Thinking this might be a clock problem, I tried installing 22p caps across pin 1 and 16 of the 4011's as recommended earlier in the thread, but that didn't change anything except the character of the glitch, which went from a pop to a short static burst.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Eric

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

eframp wrote:
JH -

I'm now having trouble with my Triple Chorus. The weird part is, when I first assembled it some months ago, it was working perfectly...

When I first assembled it, I just jumpered the Mode header since I didn't have a proper switch. I went in today to mount said switch now that I've got one, and the trouble began.

Delay lines 2 and 3 are happily chorusing, but I'm only getting a periodic glitch out of the first line. I've tried individually swapping 1022's and 4011's, but the problem stays with the line, not the chips.

The glitch can be made to come and go depending on the setting of the Waveform trim. All the way CCW and the glitch goes away completely; at the other end it's pretty loud.

Thinking this might be a clock problem, I tried installing 22p caps across pin 1 and 16 of the 4011's as recommended earlier in the thread, but that didn't change anything except the character of the glitch, which went from a pop to a short static burst.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Eric


I never experienced something like that. Have you checked the Waveforms on the Mod1, Mod2 and Mod3 test points - is there a considerable difference between the faulty one and the others?

ETA: Someone else has run into a similar problem, it seems:
http://electro-music.com/forum/post-257964.html#257964

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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eframp



Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Atlanta, GA
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

I never experienced something like that. Have you checked the Waveforms on the Mod1, Mod2 and Mod3 test points - is there a considerable difference between the faulty one and the others?

ETA: Someone else has run into a similar problem, it seems:
http://electro-music.com/forum/post-257964.html#257964

JH.


Oh for a 'scope. I've only got a meter and a logic probe, which I suspect won't get me too far in this instance.

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
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Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

eframp wrote:
jhaible wrote:

I never experienced something like that. Have you checked the Waveforms on the Mod1, Mod2 and Mod3 test points - is there a considerable difference between the faulty one and the others?

ETA: Someone else has run into a similar problem, it seems:
http://electro-music.com/forum/post-257964.html#257964

JH.


Oh for a 'scope. I've only got a meter and a logic probe, which I suspect won't get me too far in this instance.


I'm afraid it won't ... Sad

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You could try to replace all the opamps ... they are cheap ... and if it once worked, and now something's wrong with the modulation signals, one of them might be gone ... but then again, without a scope, it's like running around in the dark ...

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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