electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Rob Adventures in Sound
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Modular Synthesis
Wonderful new phase shifter module
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 2 [27 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 467
Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:53 pm    Post subject: Wonderful new phase shifter module Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all,

I have a fairly large Dotcom/MOTM modular synth and I have been on the hunt for some of the more unusual modules, and I have just found something really special.

I have been looking at the various phase shifter modules available from different manufacturers but IMO they are all missing important features - some only do positive-mix phasing, some only do negative, some just don't sound so great. Last year I was discussing this with a friend of ours, Rob Hordijk from The Netherlands. For those who don't know Rob, he's a synth genius (check out his amazing tutorials for tips & tricks on the Nord G2 Modular) and he has now gotten interested in producing some unusual and high-quality boutique analog synth modules and his Dual Phaser module is the first in a series of new devices.

A few specs:

It's a double-wide MOTM format module and works with MOTM or DOTCOM power systems, and the final production version may also have Doepfer power connectors as well.

It consists of two identical 8-stage phasers with some tricky routing and patching between them using switched jacks - patch audio into phaser 1 and out of phaser 2 and the two phasers will be routed in parallel but the second one will be inverted, which gives you all sorts of cool effects (more later). Also, patch a control signal into the phaser 1 1V/OCT input and nothing into the second phaser's 1V/OCT input and the first signal gets routed to both phasers' control inputs.

Perhaps the coolest feature - the MOD input has three functions, determined by a three position toggle switch:
1. SWEEP MODE - Standard frequency sweep, like other phasers, where all peaks sweep up & down as a group.
2. SPREAD MODE - The upper peaks and the lower peaks are spread apart & pulled closer together and cross over each other ( ! ) This produces amazing vocal timbres and all sorts of complex filter effects and sounds really wonderful.
3. HALF-SPREAD MODE - the upper peaks move further away & closer to the lower peaks and the lower peaks are not affected.

There is a second MOD input that is calibrated to 1V/OCT and this always acts as a SWEEP mode for all peaks, so you can SWEEP the peaks with one LFO and SPREAD the peaks with a different LFO at a different rate, which creates some really complex shifting timbres.....

The MIX control is bi-polar which adds even more sonic possibilities. Set straight up at 12 O'Clock you get dry only, no phaser (bypass mode). Turn it clockwise and you increase the phaser mix, and the phased output is positive. Turn it counter-clockwise and you increase the phaser mix, but now the phased signal is inverted which sounds very different from positive phasing.

The resonance control always provides positive (non-inverted) feedback, regardless if the mix control is set to positive or negative. By setting the MIX to negative and using an external feedback loop, you can easily get negative mix with negative feedback, so you have lots of sonic possibilities with pos & neg mix and pos or neg feedback. These combinations all sound different and this flexibility gives you a lot of options.

I'm attaching some photos here and I'll attach some short audio clips in some follow-up posts.


IMGP0767a.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  103.43 KB
 Viewed:  188 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

IMGP0767a.jpg



IMGP0769a.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  85.89 KB
 Viewed:  201 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

IMGP0769a.jpg



IMGP0772a.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  58.87 KB
 Viewed:  185 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

IMGP0772a.jpg



IMGP0781.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  226.41 KB
 Viewed:  181 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

IMGP0781.JPG



_________________
Dave Peck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 467
Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll post some dry and rather technical audio clips later, but first an example of this module in actual use. The signal is just six oscs tuned to a drone chord. You hear the oscs dry at first, then the phasers fade in. There is some chorus and reverb added to show what it sounds like in a final mix setting. I think this thing sounds amazing!


Stereo Sweep with FX.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Stereo Sweep with FX.mp3
 Filesize:  2.13 MB
 Downloaded:  575 Time(s)


_________________
Dave Peck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 467
Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

These are all one sawtooth oscillator, no other filtering or any other effects, just the phaser module. And in these clips, you are hearing only ONE of the two phasers. Some clips are positive mix, some are negative. You can hear the cool vocal-type sounds created by modulating both the frequency sweep and the peak spread.


1phaser neg sweep & spread more res.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  1phaser neg sweep & spread more res.mp3
 Filesize:  492.39 KB
 Downloaded:  464 Time(s)


1phaser neg sweep & spread hi res.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  1phaser neg sweep & spread hi res.mp3
 Filesize:  654.41 KB
 Downloaded:  440 Time(s)


1phaser pos sweep & fade more res.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  1phaser pos sweep & fade more res.mp3
 Filesize:  454.11 KB
 Downloaded:  398 Time(s)


1phaser pos sweep & spread.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  1phaser pos sweep & spread.mp3
 Filesize:  313.62 KB
 Downloaded:  383 Time(s)


_________________
Dave Peck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
seraph
Editor
Editor


Joined: Jun 21, 2003
Posts: 12096
Location: Firenze, Italy
Audio files: 33
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davep wrote:
I think this thing sounds amazing!

it does but how come the audio file is much longer than the example? Shocked

_________________
homepage - blog - forum - youtube

Quote:
Politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex - Frank Zappa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 467
Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This one is dual phasers for a stereo effect, with some audio-rate modulation added for a complex growling distortion.


dual audio mod1.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  dual audio mod1.mp3
 Filesize:  808.4 KB
 Downloaded:  520 Time(s)


_________________
Dave Peck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
seraph
Editor
Editor


Joined: Jun 21, 2003
Posts: 12096
Location: Firenze, Italy
Audio files: 33
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davep wrote:
complex growling distortion.


holy cow Shocked

_________________
homepage - blog - forum - youtube

Quote:
Politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex - Frank Zappa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 467
Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
davep wrote:
I think this thing sounds amazing!

it does but how come the audio file is much longer than the example? Shocked


That was my mistake, only the first clip is like that. There was an extra muted track in the same DAW project that was longer than the audio track and it caused the entire MP3 clip to be as long as the muted track.

_________________
Dave Peck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 467
Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This one uses the switching jacks to patch the two phasers in parallel with the second phaser inverted. As the clips proceeds, the knob settings are adjusted to create various different types of phasing sounds.


parallel INV hi res Spread.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  parallel INV hi res Spread.mp3
 Filesize:  873.55 KB
 Downloaded:  431 Time(s)


_________________
Dave Peck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 467
Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

.... and this clip has the two phasers in SERIES, both set to negative phasing with lots and lots of complex sweeping from four different LFOs all at different rates (two sweeping the frequencies, two sweeping the peak spreads).

OK, that's all for now, but there is a whole lot more. Later I'll be posting some audio clips that don't sound anything at all like a phase shifter. This module can do stuff like resonant tuned percussion from a simple transient trigger and even phase distortion synthesis ( ! )


series, neg & neg spread hi rez.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  series, neg & neg spread hi rez.mp3
 Filesize:  558.36 KB
 Downloaded:  420 Time(s)


_________________
Dave Peck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 467
Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's something unusual - using the dual phaser to create tuned percussion effects. A series of transient spikes are sent to the phasers (you can hear these at the beginning and end of the clip) and several S/H modules are modulating the phaser's frequencies and peak spreads. The feedback is increased to make the phasers "ring".


PERC1.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  PERC1.mp3
 Filesize:  480.53 KB
 Downloaded:  430 Time(s)


_________________
Dave Peck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 467
Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

... and some phase distortion synthesis !

The audio source is just a single SINE WAVE - nothing else - no sawtooth wave or square wave. And there's no distortion or overdrive module processing the sine wave. And no lowpass filter. Just the sine wave and the phaser.

The sine wave is connected to both the AUDIO IN and the MOD IN on the phaser for audio-rate modulation of the sine wave by itself, and it gets controlled by a VCA & ADSR before the MOD IN jack to control the amount of modulation. By changing the feedback, frequency, and mod depth controls you can get all sorts of cool effects that sound a bit like a distorted filter or maybe some FM synthesis. You'll hear the un-mangled sine wave at the beginning and end of the clip and lots of other sounds in the middle.


SINE SHAPER2.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  SINE SHAPER2.mp3
 Filesize:  1.46 MB
 Downloaded:  468 Time(s)


_________________
Dave Peck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This phaser sounds indeed very good.

What fx box did u use for the chorus and reverb Dave?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mono-poly



Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 935
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome Dave and Rob!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 467
Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
This phaser sounds indeed very good.

What fx box did u use for the chorus and reverb Dave?


I used a Nord G2 Engine for the chorus and a Lexicon PCM70 for the reverb.

_________________
Dave Peck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
terjewinther



Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 60
Location: Nesodden, Norway

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Wonderful new phase shifter module Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So when & where will this module be available?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 467
Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: Wonderful new phase shifter module Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

terjewinther wrote:
So when & where will this module be available?


Sorry for the late response, I was in China on a business trip from June 26 until today and was not checking this site.

The module should be available now. I posted some comments about it on another site and some folks over there have already contacted him to arrange purchase. You can contact Rob directly and he can provide all the info:

rhordijk ( AT ) xs4all (DOT) nl

_________________
Dave Peck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
russma



Joined: Oct 22, 2007
Posts: 14
Location: PNW

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't even have a dotcom system, and I want this phaser.

Nice going, Rob.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emdot_ambient



Joined: Nov 22, 2009
Posts: 669
Location: Frederick, MD

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've got to bump this thread because this is the sweetest phaser I've ever heard. Ever. afro
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
stuadh



Joined: Feb 24, 2008
Posts: 4
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I want!!!

I have contacted Rob about costs and availability and I eagerly await his response. I have just started to make the leap from Eurorack to 5U format after discovering Moon Modular's stuff.

Yours Aye

Stuadh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 467
Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

...you won't be disappointed! I'm still loving this thing and still discovering new tricks for it. I would not have suspected that a phaser module could do so much. Here it is again, being put to good use (top row, fifth module from the right):



...and I just swapped some emails with Rob the other day. Can't tell you much right now... but he's been very busy! Very Happy


IMGP0813.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  159.65 KB
 Viewed:  168 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

IMGP0813.JPG



_________________
Dave Peck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stuadh



Joined: Feb 24, 2008
Posts: 4
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I hope Rob doesn't mind me saying this, but rather than have lots of people ask the same question, the Dual Phaser costs 385 euro plus shipping and is available in MOTM and Dotcom format. He requests payment on completion of the module and at the moment, there is a four to five week wait. I'm sure Rob reserves the right to change any of these facts and this is just a guide - please contact him directly if you are interested.

I'm going to start saving (having just spent all my pocket-money on Moon Modular stuff). Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
demi



Joined: Apr 28, 2010
Posts: 2
Location: london

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:24 am    Post subject:
Subject description: with A-sys or Doepfer
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

would there be any connection issues racking this up alongside any A-sys or Doepfer set ups out of curiosity ?? the clips i've heard sound great..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stuadh



Joined: Feb 24, 2008
Posts: 4
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DotCom and MOTM (5U) are both very different formats to Eurorack (3U) (A Sys and Doepfer). Look here for a starter http://www.modularsynth.com/chart.html. My synth has been exclusively Eurorack until now but I've recently prepared an 8 space row for MOTM format. In addition to the physical different, there is a voltage difference (±12V v ±15V). I have a homemade cabinet with lots of space so conversion was easy, but you would not be able to convert a Doepfer or a Sys case without doing some serious metalwork and electronics.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 467
Location: Oakland, CA
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

stuadh is correct, you'll need a +15/-15/+5V power supply for Dotcom or MOTM format modules. There are several cheap ways to do this, like the Dotcom QPS2 described here:

http://www.synthesizers.com/q101.html . Note that this power supply has Dotcom style DC power connectors and Rob's module has MOTM style, so you can use an MOTM power system or a cheaper Dotcom system like in the link along with the simple & cheap MOTM 995 power adapter board, shown here:

http://www.synthtech.com/testcart/forums.html?main_page=product_info&cPath=67&products_id=183

...but I think maybe your question was just about patching the two different module types together, and if that's the case, then it's simple. You'll need adapters to go from the tiny minijacks of euro stuff to the 1/4" jacks on the phaser, but it will work fine.

_________________
Dave Peck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emdot_ambient



Joined: Nov 22, 2009
Posts: 669
Location: Frederick, MD

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dose this phaser require a +5V power supply? Most dotcom and MOTM don't need the 5V supply, only some of the modules with more digital components like sequencers, clock dividers, MIDI-CV converters and the like require the triple supply.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 2 [27 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Modular Synthesis
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use