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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
my lunetta project
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RF



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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One more thing...fairly critical, and not very convenient for your application...
The ground really needs to be a good earth ground - A simple chassis ground is 'right out', and line voltage ground may be sketchy, at best.


EDIT - Now look - We've hijacked amplex's thread.

Sorry about that.

bruce

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RF wrote:
EDIT - Now look - We've hijacked amplex's thread.

Sorry about that.

bruce


That does it, you're grounded! lol!

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RF



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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Doh!

“Electricity can be dangerous. My nephew tried to stick a penny into a plug. Whoever said a penny doesn't go far didn't see him shoot across that floor. I told him he was grounded.”
-Tim Allen

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amplex



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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

by all means, Carry on! I've been interested in feeding external signals into my lunetta as well, and I have an (RC car controller?) antenna i've been meaning to use for a diy theramin for awhile now, and I think this could have great potential as a sound source to mix in on some crazy patches. as far as feeding it into other signals im not sure how useful it would be other than a source of noise (you could feed 4094 data pin wih this maybe?), but it would be an interesting experiment Smile
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DGTom



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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks to everyone for this interesting disscussion on grounding / interferance - its something thats been on the back of my mind.

monokinetic wrote:
all:
as a matter of interest I'd like to ask about boxes and rf/emi etc in Lunetta land. amplex has used a plastic box by the looks of it, I know someone else (DGtom?) is using perspex for panels. Do you think there is a risk of radio interference etc?


I won't say my builds are actual Lunettas, but Lunetta inspired Frac modules.
Because the Blacet-Frac standard doesn't use a grounded panel I stayed with this, whilst my CMOS modules are all seperate from my 'normal' modular for now they are intended to be used together & I'd like to make some +/-15V modules once I have a self contained CMOS synth up & running.

I've had my breadboard virtually on top of my computer & not had a problem - ass not class?! - but I kind of like environmental noise infecting my ccts. anyways Very Happy

whilst I do like my perspex panels so far - & plan to stick with em for now - I have an idea to make a ground plate module, but now amplex has me thinking about a bunch of bolts mounted on a panel with some posts & ins / outs, could be a great ghetto touch panel!

Great system amplex! I really dig the reclaimed tupperware Very Happy It would be cool to get a set of differant sized tubs & build seperate by inter-dependant synths in them which could be tangled up in a web of cable.
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tupperware and Lunettas, what a combination! Smile
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amplex



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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DGTom wrote:
Great system amplex! I really dig the reclaimed tupperware Very Happy It would be cool to get a set of differant sized tubs & build seperate by inter-dependant synths in them which could be tangled up in a web of cable.



Well it wasnt the original concept for a case but I wanted something that I could use quickly to get this thing ready to patch. It's all about the complex patches!!! More sounds coming soon..

If I had it to do over again as a single noisemaker machine I might include some different chips (im getting a nice collection of 4xxx chips going!) and whatnot as it takes quite a few patch cables to get an interesting sound out of this thing, but when I do, it sounds great, exactly what I was looking for, the thing plays sequences on its own that vary over time, in a completely new fashion than i am used to from a synth perspective, and its amazing to get sounds and patterns out of this thing due to the simplicity of the nature of the chips that I ended up adding to it. the next one I do is going to be a bit bigger so I will have more of the options I feel are desperately needed.

On another note I have a new NAND synth / baby10 seq on the way with patchable bolts on the back (all 8 seq pulse outs, summed cv out, reset/nand 1freq in/audio/ground out) this will be an interesting addition, and after that it's probably going to be another lunetta 'module' that will complement my first, more patch cables, and stuff like a nice ADSR hopefully, filters, glide, etc. I'm thinking of building another synth with VCO in as well.. got a lot in the works just too drunk tonight to keep building lol... i have everything ready i can do until soldering.. at least i have a new tip for my crappy radioshack soldering iron, only 50-60 solder joints into it.. i really want to make some music atm but feeling only drum/percussion oriented, i really want one of my next projects to be a drum machine type of box.. mostly lunetta oriented hopefully!! i really want to make something unique and still full sounding, so i need more conventional circuits to enhance my signals, (and some longer patch cables to patch between the 2) is what im thinking >=D a really good compressor would be nice too!! i have a lot to work with so something will arise.. but at the moment im really thinking it would be nice to have a tube warmer compressor for some of the circuits that are nice in variance but need that pumpy thick sound to them (resonance/feedback filter would be nice)..

im having the time of my life, not even worrying about creating music atm, until i have some really cool self-made tools to compose with. i think that with the ideas and skills im learning here i can really accelerate my music to another level, or maybe thats the beer talking =D thanks for all your help all.. hopefully i can create something pretty unique with these 3 boxes im working on, it will be a very useful addition to my beats.. also the next thing im thinking of is a midi->cv converter to use with all this with sync. ive seen pic based ones diy but maybe i can figure out a more traditional approach, since im accumulating money much slower than the rate of spending it Smile

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Last edited by amplex on Sat May 23, 2009 12:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

amplex wrote:
.. got a lot in the works just too drunk tonight to keep building lol...


Haha! You deserve a little drunken debauchery after building that synth! Play it again, Sam!

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loss1234



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have made quite a few synths in tupperware and i always thought they were great fun


my question...how did you solder the wires to the bolts? or did you simply wrap wire around them?

thanks for all the great info!!

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amplex



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

loss1234 wrote:
my question...how did you solder the wires to the bolts? or did you simply wrap wire around them?


Just wrapped wires into circles with needlenose, tightened both the wire and the nut really hard and pray i don't accidently jar any wires loose =] Nah, every bolt still works and i've moved it around 2-3 times now, doesnt seem to be a problem.

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amplex



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:06 pm    Post subject: more ideas needed for next module Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i am getting anxious to start building again and i need some more ideas for my next module.. but i want to plan this one better as to give a wider variety of clocks, pitches, dividers, and 'textures'! my first one included a slacker 4017->4051 melody generator, 4024 by 7 divider, 4094 8bit shift reg, and 4030 quad 2in XOR so these are covered, i am compiling a lot of schematics but need to make some solid choices in the logic that will give me a wide variety of sounds/patterns/textures. i am getting some ideas for a lfo->switch module as well, more like the original moosack machine, something that produces different variants of patterns (or completely different sounds) over time.
i also am thinking of ways of controlling this thing directly such as a midi->cv box, and possibly a ribbon controller for playing CVs directly.. maybe even some patchable pots that let me control 3-4 things as a time! thoughts?

heres a couple pictures of the case im going to be using:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38955404@N04/sets/72157619152274760/


{updated} modules im planning on including:

6x 40106 clocks (split into fixed ranges, .1-10hz, 10-100, 100-1000, 1k-10k,10k-100k, 100k-200k?, not sure exactly the r/c im going to need for each one)
2x TSP 40106 pseudo random source

TSP 4049 sine/triangle lfo (not enough parts yet)
cgs36 4017 pulse divider
4040 divider
4089 rate multiplier

bugs 4015 shift reg
4023 2x 3in nand (1 unused)
4011 2x 2in xor (2 unused)
4001 2x 2in nor (2 unused)

4007 dual complementary pair plus inverter (not sure what this is, datasheet doesnt offer much? thinking oscillator/inverter)

another r2r ladder maybe 4bit..

4046 vco (6 ins)
4069 VCO Rene Schmitz
hemmop's 555 fm osc

ryks take on the very simple vca, 1 diode ar eg
christians 4069 env follower
tl072 resonant filter

2x 4 channel bolt -> 1/4" out mixers

going with a 5 bolt width like the last lunetta, i can fit 12 rows per side bringing the bolt count to 60 x2 = 120 bolts total.

im going to cut a 5 1/8" x 11" sheet to label controls, goes perfectly inbetween the ridges towards the top and bottom of the front and back 'panels', so i'm thinking those ridges will house the pots/switches needed for controls.

since i haven't been working much i can't really afford any more pots right now so i will have to go with what i have, 5-8 1meg, 7 100k, 3 500k, 1 50k, 2 10k, 3 spdt switches, but i have >100 spst small square type.. others will have to wait until next paycheck which could be a few weeks. thinking about stripping some out of old circuitbent toys (got a couple that arent working i could just abandon instead of trying to fix..) pale

just finished sanding the sides and cutting out the guts, broke two dremel tips on the hardened plastic =\, never put too much pressure on the dremel @ an angle!!! best to go straight on or just go slow from the side and let the dremel do the work.. Embarassed now to lay out the design... bounce

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Last edited by amplex on Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RKHobbs



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If you wired a couple of plugs (or bolts) in parallel with any potentiometer, you could plug external resistors into it. Things like softpots, vactrols, joysticks. That way, you could 'play' whatever parameter you were plugged into.
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amplex



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:18 pm    Post subject: update on lunetta2.0 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well I have an update on the second 'module' to my lunetta.. about 35% complete, the board is working, only tested my 4046 VCO so far but it seems to be working as intended! so far I have included:

2x tsp pseudo random generator
easy portamento
4046 vco
4516 presettable up/down counter
4089 binary rate multiplier
4007 dual complementary pair plus inverter (this one scares me, concerned about the safety of my other chips!)
4040 12stage ripple counter
4001 2in nor gates
4029 up/down counter
4023 3in nand gate
4015 4bit shift reg
and a logic high and logic low/ground.

ive only finished the panel layout and soldering the board together, havent drilled the case yet.

anyone have experience with the 4007 in a lunetta? it says in the datasheet 'for proper operation all pins must be constrained to between -0.3 and +0.3v'. i did not do anything except patch the first 5 pins out to the panel, i figure patching this chip is going to be some nasty noise or possibly it will just burn up since i have no constraints on voltage levels anywhere in this system, but its an experiment for sure =]

i have been getting some crazy sounds out of my first lunetta, loving the 4024/4094/melody generator combinations!! so many cool patches can be made from this setup!! there is a lot of clock bleeding into the output, its noisy, but i love it =] this tupperware lunetta is my favorite piece i have constructed so far, and totally unique sounds come from it. now i just need to go back to all the sounds ive recorded and start sampling from it to arrange something really interesting. however every time ive tried to take it somewhere to show it off, ive never gotten nearly as interesting sounds from it as when im home.. o well

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amplex



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: lunetta 2 done for now.. noisy as hell Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this freakin noisebox is a crazy addition to the lineup =D its pretty weird patching on the thing. you think that you understand these chips and what exactly they do but when you start using them they always astound you with a sound that you really didnt expect. i think that my very limited knowledge on electronics and how to build good circuits adds to the uniqueness of the instrument on its own =d but honestly, lately when i see a scifi movie with a decent soundtrack, i can imagine creating some of the sounds with a lunetta, like computer sounds in old movies =] pretty cool random noise/texture/soundefx box!

heres some pics of it:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38955404@N04/sets/72157619152274760/

you can get some really ratty sounds out of the thing: on the clip im just running it thru a korg ax30g on a relatively clean setting (compressor, eq, reverb + delay but all very light), but it sounds like its screaming in pain @ parts >=D

and heres some sounds of the thing sounding like its frying (128kbit, 9min) unedited

i had a problem with the 4046 vco (i thought) keeping a low note on all the time but it appears to be some kind of ground problem because even the yavco seems to have the same thing. it might be a ground in the vco, not sure, but patching seems to cover it up .. just a break in the ground somewhere possibly? i patch from chip to chip like normal, minding the 14/16 pin differences .. wonder what else it could be? maybe ill try adding the ground to the other side of network of chips and maybe in the middle again =d just to be thorough..

cant wait to patch this with my 1st lunetta when i get some more + longer patch cords.. i also want to add some variable clocks in here too when i can afford more pots..

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow rad dude! nice use of the dewalt case too, looks elegant!
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RF



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: lunetta 2 done for now.. noisy as hell Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's looking and sounding great amplex. I like what you are doing with this!

amplex wrote:
t you think that you understand these chips and what exactly they do but when you start using them they always astound you with a sound that you really didnt expect.


They don't excactly bahave predictablely, do they? I love the unexpected noises that happen from grabbing patch cords and loading inputs Cool

amplex wrote:

but it sounds like its screaming in pain @ parts >=D

and heres some sounds of the thing sounding like its frying (128kbit, 9min) unedited


Oh - the humanity! Shocked

Certainly, those chips are being misused, abused, exploited and belittled! Thier good reputation smeared, capabilities for the common good squandered, and associated application notes defiled!

Way to go! Twisted Evil

bruce

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amplex



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: lunetta 2 done for now.. noisy as hell Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

amplex wrote:
i had a problem with the 4046 vco (i thought) keeping a low note on all the time but it appears to be some kind of ground problem


well i got that sorted, must be a break in my ground line somewhere because i patched from the start of it to an earlier chip in the lineup and now its MUCH quieter, low note

thanks for the comments, when i was putting it together i always have these ideas of what the counters/dividers/gates will sound like from the datasheet perspective, but once you start patching, its raw modulated noise. Maybe I'll do another vco tonight or try to fix up the 4046.

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DGTom



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome!

I would've left the Dewalt logo myself - total fashion victim. But, I love the tetris-ish layout Very Happy

& these things are totally addictive! But then they are so cheap its a really good addiction to have Razz
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amplex



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tetris!!! woot didnt even realize haha, cool =]]

yea the only thing that isnt cheap is pots which i need lots of!! i have a few random sizes left, 10k, few 100ks, couple 500k, maybe 1-2 1m's.. its a lot more fun to be knob twiddling for extra control over the sound! i really want to be able to patch pots too, im just too broke to be building anything else right now.. unless i salvage parts from other endeavors. or maybe i can sell some gear.. forsale: DSI Mopho, Korg Electribe ER1 MKII, Roland SP-808 (w/ 250meg zip) .. =X

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DGTom



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

totally! Pots are most expensive thing in mine as well (not counting the stuff ups with the panels) mostly as I'm using 9mm pots, which are more than the regular 16mm & Futurlec doesn't stock them Sad so I'm stuck buying them local / retail.

Its all good tho, you get alotta synth in very little space this way - altho I have totally exhausted the local supply of banana sockets as well Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In eChucK we are using those little thumbwheel pots, these are quite in expensive IIRC. They also plug directly into protoboards.

Les

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droffset



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That looks tough, good work Amplex Smile
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